4 ms·

> - It's OK to have the user agree that he's 13 years or older. Facebook cannot possibly check whether it's true, and the age doesn't matter anyway since the co

by cbhl 9y ago

> - It's OK to have the user agree that he's 13 years or older. Facebook cannot possibly check whether it's true, and the age doesn't matter anyway since the contract would be valid even if it weren't the case. I suspect this clause is actually due to US law (COPPA). Also, are kids allowed to agree to contracts in Germany? I believe that's not the case in the US.

buster 9y ago
I didn't understand that part as well. As far as I know, kids can't sign contracts. They are not "geschäftsfähig" (business capable) until they are 18. Unless the parents explicitly agree to some contract.
- madez 9y ago
  Teenagers can agree to contracts, but only in very limited terms. For example, they can buy food in a supermarket. Buying stuff in a store constitutes a contract.
  - tripzilch 9y ago
    Is that German law? Because in the Netherlands this is called a "sale", and comes with very different rights and duties for both parties.
    - madez 9y ago
      When I said ’contract’ without qualifier then I meant any form of legally binding agreement including sale contracts. A contract does not need to be written down.
- claudius 9y ago
  Kids under 7 cannot enter into contracts at all. Kids between 7 and 18 can enter into contracts, either if those contracts are entirely without duties to them (e.g. they can accept gifts) or if their contractual duties are somewhat negligible (e.g. they can buy sweets from their pocket money) or their guardians agreed to them being able to enter into such contracts. All other contracts are provisionally void (?!, "schwebend unwirksam"), i.e. can become void as soon as their guardians disagree with the contract or can become fully valid once their guardians agree.
  - tripzilch 9y ago
    > Kids between 7 and 18 can enter into contracts, either if those contracts are entirely without duties to them (e.g. they can accept gifts) Huh, that's interesting. I'm not familiar with German law, but in the Netherlands this would legally be simply not a contract at all. A contract (in the Netherlands) explicitly requires (actually is defined as such) that both parties have contractual duties, and a contract is the formalisation of the exchange of these ("this for that"). It makes a lot of sense too. If one party has no duties, they can't be held to the contract, so what's the use of even having one.
    - dahauns 9y ago
      I guess this is because in German law the central concept here is not the contract, but the Rechtsgeschäft, which is a broader term: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsgesch%C3%A4ft https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsgesch%C3%A4ft
      - tripzilch 9y ago
        Thanks for the link, I like to think I can read German reasonably well but you'll forgive me if that page is a bit much to digest right now ;-)
tscs37 9y ago
Under 18 you are not able to form fully valid contracts in Germany. Period. If you're under 13 any contract that exceeds reasonable monthly allowance is automatically invalid. All other contracts or "floating/pending valid", ie valid until the parents agree. There is also a clause on 16 to 18 year old kids but IIRC it just shifts responsibility away from the parents more. A contract that is "floating/pending valid" is usually not a problem, it just means the parents can terminate the contract as if it never existed within reasonable bounds (if you bought something from the supermarket and ate it, your parents won't be able to get the money back)

by cbhl 9y ago

buster 9y ago

I didn't understand that part as well. As far as I know, kids can't sign contracts. They are not "geschäftsfähig" (business capable) until they are 18. Unless the parents explicitly agree to some contract.

madez 9y ago
Teenagers can agree to contracts, but only in very limited terms. For example, they can buy food in a supermarket. Buying stuff in a store constitutes a contract.
- tripzilch 9y ago
  Is that German law? Because in the Netherlands this is called a "sale", and comes with very different rights and duties for both parties.
  - madez 9y ago
    When I said ’contract’ without qualifier then I meant any form of legally binding agreement including sale contracts. A contract does not need to be written down.
claudius 9y ago
Kids under 7 cannot enter into contracts at all. Kids between 7 and 18 can enter into contracts, either if those contracts are entirely without duties to them (e.g. they can accept gifts) or if their contractual duties are somewhat negligible (e.g. they can buy sweets from their pocket money) or their guardians agreed to them being able to enter into such contracts. All other contracts are provisionally void (?!, "schwebend unwirksam"), i.e. can become void as soon as their guardians disagree with the contract or can become fully valid once their guardians agree.
- tripzilch 9y ago
  > Kids between 7 and 18 can enter into contracts, either if those contracts are entirely without duties to them (e.g. they can accept gifts) Huh, that's interesting. I'm not familiar with German law, but in the Netherlands this would legally be simply not a contract at all. A contract (in the Netherlands) explicitly requires (actually is defined as such) that both parties have contractual duties, and a contract is the formalisation of the exchange of these ("this for that"). It makes a lot of sense too. If one party has no duties, they can't be held to the contract, so what's the use of even having one.
  - dahauns 9y ago
    I guess this is because in German law the central concept here is not the contract, but the Rechtsgeschäft, which is a broader term: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsgesch%C3%A4ft https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsgesch%C3%A4ft
    - tripzilch 9y ago
      Thanks for the link, I like to think I can read German reasonably well but you'll forgive me if that page is a bit much to digest right now ;-)

tscs37 9y ago

Under 18 you are not able to form fully valid contracts in Germany. Period. If you're under 13 any contract that exceeds reasonable monthly allowance is automatically invalid. All other contracts or "floating/pending valid", ie valid until the parents agree. There is also a clause on 16 to 18 year old kids but IIRC it just shifts responsibility away from the parents more. A contract that is "floating/pending valid" is usually not a problem, it just means the parents can terminate the contract as if it never existed within reasonable bounds (if you bought something from the supermarket and ate it, your parents won't be able to get the money back)