5 ms·

I seriously don't doubt things are like this. Holy crap.

luckydude 9y ago
I'm old (almost 56) and retired so I'm perhaps out of touch. Have things changed this much? I just asked my wife (who I met at Silicon Graphics) to read the article and asked her if things were like that at SGI. She said no, there was little to none of this. I'm sure, people being people, there was some but her memory matches mine, it wasn't rampant, there were no "24/7 sexual advances" that just wasn't a thing. Or if it was we both didn't notice it. I made the comment that I didn't have enough game to harass anyone like what is described in the article and I didn't know any programmers that were like that. My wife thinks that maybe the programmers of today are really different than they were 20-30 years ago. I dunno, I wonder if this is just normal life at every company now or if these are some companies with a worse culture than others. I sure hope these are not the norm. If these stories are the norm we're headed for a depressing world where men and women don't like each other very much. It's hard to start there and end up as partners. It seems like a lot of the fun of flirting would be viewed as harassment, which is a shame, flirting is fun when both people are into it. You can do it without any sexual intent at all, I used flirt shamelessly with my admin at SGI. I got called on it when I stopped (I got busy with a project). My boss's boss called me in and asked me "why did you stop flirting with Kim?" I explained and he said "Kim is going through rough divorce, she could really use the attention, please find some time to give her some." So I did, but it was harmless fun, we both knew we were just playing, it wasn't going anywhere. Would that be OK in today's climate? Seems like no.
- Slansitartop 9y ago
  This book seems like it has serious problems with exaggeration. A previous excerpt scandalously claimed that VC parties are drug-fueled sex orgies. As far as I know, none of the scandalous aspects were corroborated, and the party in question sounded pretty corporate in independent accounts (though not so corporate to have drink tickets).
- conradfr 9y ago
  And yet you met your wife at work ;)
  - luckydude 9y ago
    Yeah but dating coworkers was fine back then. And flirting was OK. Hell, I was seeing 3 other woman at the same company in the same building, they all knew about each other and were fine with it [1], when my wife swooped in and decided she was serious. She sent those other women packing :) Articles like the one from OP make it sound like the women and men are at war, just doesn't seem like fun time to be dating. But I'm not in that mix so maybe all this is a bunch of outliers, who clearly aren't having fun. Maybe there are a bunch of men and women in their 20's and 30's getting along just fine. That article paints a pretty different picture. Maybe it's just that there are some asshole men who are making life miserable and they are finally getting some attention. The article made it sound like all the men are assholes, "sexual advances 24/7" etc. [1] Yeah, I know I said in the first reply that I had no game. And I didn't but around 32 I gave up on women, I sucked at it, so I stopped trying. Guess what? The Larry that put women on a pedestal was unattractive, but the Larry that ignored women was hugely attractive. I kinda wish I had gotten that memo a decade earlier :(
    - Slansitartop 9y ago
      > just doesn't seem like fun time to be dating That's an understatement: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2018/02/12/its-tough-for-me-to-know-where-the-line-is-the-metoo-era-is-making-dating-more-confusing/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2018/02/12/it...

I'm old (almost 56) and retired so I'm perhaps out of touch. Have things changed this much? I just asked my wife (who I met at Silicon Graphics) to read the article and asked her if things were like that at SGI. She said no, there was little to none of this. I'm sure, people being people, there was some but her memory matches mine, it wasn't rampant, there were no "24/7 sexual advances" that just wasn't a thing. Or if it was we both didn't notice it. I made the comment that I didn't have enough game to harass anyone like what is described in the article and I didn't know any programmers that were like that. My wife thinks that maybe the programmers of today are really different than they were 20-30 years ago. I dunno, I wonder if this is just normal life at every company now or if these are some companies with a worse culture than others. I sure hope these are not the norm. If these stories are the norm we're headed for a depressing world where men and women don't like each other very much. It's hard to start there and end up as partners. It seems like a lot of the fun of flirting would be viewed as harassment, which is a shame, flirting is fun when both people are into it. You can do it without any sexual intent at all, I used flirt shamelessly with my admin at SGI. I got called on it when I stopped (I got busy with a project). My boss's boss called me in and asked me "why did you stop flirting with Kim?" I explained and he said "Kim is going through rough divorce, she could really use the attention, please find some time to give her some." So I did, but it was harmless fun, we both knew we were just playing, it wasn't going anywhere. Would that be OK in today's climate? Seems like no.

Slansitartop 9y ago
This book seems like it has serious problems with exaggeration. A previous excerpt scandalously claimed that VC parties are drug-fueled sex orgies. As far as I know, none of the scandalous aspects were corroborated, and the party in question sounded pretty corporate in independent accounts (though not so corporate to have drink tickets).
conradfr 9y ago
And yet you met your wife at work ;)
- luckydude 9y ago
  Yeah but dating coworkers was fine back then. And flirting was OK. Hell, I was seeing 3 other woman at the same company in the same building, they all knew about each other and were fine with it [1], when my wife swooped in and decided she was serious. She sent those other women packing :) Articles like the one from OP make it sound like the women and men are at war, just doesn't seem like fun time to be dating. But I'm not in that mix so maybe all this is a bunch of outliers, who clearly aren't having fun. Maybe there are a bunch of men and women in their 20's and 30's getting along just fine. That article paints a pretty different picture. Maybe it's just that there are some asshole men who are making life miserable and they are finally getting some attention. The article made it sound like all the men are assholes, "sexual advances 24/7" etc. [1] Yeah, I know I said in the first reply that I had no game. And I didn't but around 32 I gave up on women, I sucked at it, so I stopped trying. Guess what? The Larry that put women on a pedestal was unattractive, but the Larry that ignored women was hugely attractive. I kinda wish I had gotten that memo a decade earlier :(
  - Slansitartop 9y ago
    > just doesn't seem like fun time to be dating That's an understatement: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2018/02/12/its-tough-for-me-to-know-where-the-line-is-the-metoo-era-is-making-dating-more-confusing/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2018/02/12/it...