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As a father of four girls ranging from 8 years to three months old, I have to agree with that elderly lady. My daughters are all very different persons, with th

As a father of four girls ranging from 8 years to three months old, I have to agree with that elderly lady. My daughters are all very different persons, with their own personalities, likes and interests. There's very little I could do to change who they fundamentally are, even if I wanted to. I also believe that as long as you love your children (which is very easy to do), and provide them with a safe environment where they can feel empowered to try things (a bit harder, but still very doable), they'll turn out fine. There's this trend in parenting nowadays, where we're all pursuing perfection via different techniques / philosophies, but anything involving living things, especially humans, is inherently messy / imperfect. Raising children is no exception.

amag 9y ago
Exactly, forego all "techniques" and just make them feel loved no matter what. Then let them discover the world, pursue their own interests. Take a step back and don't let your fears hold them back. Challenge and push them gently when their fears hold them back. They won't be perfect, they were raised by imperfect persons after all, but with enough love they'll be ok.
tremendulo 9y ago
>we're all pursuing perfection via different techniques Yes, while often getting fundamentals wrong, e.g. there are millions of two year olds in day care.
- lovemenot 9y ago
  I am not an expert but isn't that just the kind of dogmatic viewpoint which the article suggests has little value. You may believe day-care for two year-olds is fundamentally wrong, but there's little empirical evidence to show that children raised in different ways have different outcomes. At least you should indicate why you believe those millions are being raised wrongly, rather than merely assert it as fact.
  - tremendulo 9y ago
    Empirical evidence can't decide on moral issues. To complicate matters further most moral stuff can't be explained very well. For example, 'murder is wrong' is an uncontroversial moral fact which is both unfalsifiable and hard to explain. In simple everyday terms I'd say small children need love and attention like a plant needs water. They can't get these reliably at day care. But most of us already know this.
    - alasdair_ 9y ago
      >uncontroversial moral fact There are lots and lots of philosophers who would argue with you here. Morality and facts are disjoint sets to some.
      - tremendulo 9y ago
        'Uncontroversial statement' if they prefer. I'd be happy to nitpick with them provided they aren't murdering people or sending their babies to preschool. https://www.edge.org/response-detail/11271 https://www.edge.org/response-detail/11271
    - lovemenot 9y ago
      You have already elided from fundamentally wrong to not as good as. So this is moving in the right direction. I would ask you to take the next step with me. Please acknowledge, the points below can be true sometimes: - Some Day Care will offer more love and attention than some parents - Some children who attend poor quality day-care as two year-olds will grow to become just as mature or balanced as most of their their stay-at-home peers. All I wanted to do is to show that this situation is more nuanced than "fundamentally wrong". I am afraid I don't subscribe to your morality. At best, it puts the perfect in the way of the good. For many parents, at some point, day-care is surely the best choice available to them and we should not be quick to judge them as bad parents for doing so.
      - tremendulo 9y ago
        >puts the perfect in the way of the good No, that's what I'm arguing against. Parenting manuals are arguing minutiae while children are increasingly being brought up by strangers who don't love them. Of course there are exceptions. So what? >So this is moving in the right direction. Aren't you being a bit quick to judge here ;-)
- mcv 9y ago
  > while often getting fundamentals wrong, e.g. there are millions of two year olds in day care. You suggest there's something wrong with that, but I'm at a loss as to what it could be. Of course two year olds go to day care. Do you want to deny them their social development? I recommend starting daycare around 6 months. I'm personally really happy with our arrangement: I work 4 days, my wife works 4 days, and 3 days of daycare. We get to spend plenty of time with the kids, but we also have a (practically) full-time job and the kids get lots of time to play with other kids. I'd be more worried if millions of two year olds were not going to daycare.
ThrustVectoring 9y ago
>I also believe that as long as you love your children (which is very easy to do), and provide them with a safe environment where they can feel empowered to try things (a bit harder, but still very doable), they'll turn out fine. I'd add to that "teach a minimal level of social acceptability to behavior by the age of 2". There's a failure loop of "too annoying for playing with peers, leading to shunning, leading to not learning how to play nicely with others". You don't need to do much to steer children out of that, but you'll likely need to do some. Plus, children that don't annoy the heck out of you are much easier to love.
- mcv 9y ago
  I personally strongly recommend sending your kid to a daycare up to 3 days a week starting when they're about 6 months old. I've heard that before 6 months, it can be stressful, but after 6 months, they can get very attached to only the people they know, and not accept anyone else anymore, which can be a problem with babysitters, family, play dates, etc. So get them used to meeting other kids at an early age. It's great for their social development. Of course individual kids may vary, but it's a good thing to keep in mind.

amag 9y ago

Exactly, forego all "techniques" and just make them feel loved no matter what. Then let them discover the world, pursue their own interests. Take a step back and don't let your fears hold them back. Challenge and push them gently when their fears hold them back. They won't be perfect, they were raised by imperfect persons after all, but with enough love they'll be ok.

tremendulo 9y ago

>we're all pursuing perfection via different techniques Yes, while often getting fundamentals wrong, e.g. there are millions of two year olds in day care.

lovemenot 9y ago
I am not an expert but isn't that just the kind of dogmatic viewpoint which the article suggests has little value. You may believe day-care for two year-olds is fundamentally wrong, but there's little empirical evidence to show that children raised in different ways have different outcomes. At least you should indicate why you believe those millions are being raised wrongly, rather than merely assert it as fact.
- tremendulo 9y ago
  Empirical evidence can't decide on moral issues. To complicate matters further most moral stuff can't be explained very well. For example, 'murder is wrong' is an uncontroversial moral fact which is both unfalsifiable and hard to explain. In simple everyday terms I'd say small children need love and attention like a plant needs water. They can't get these reliably at day care. But most of us already know this.
  - alasdair_ 9y ago
    >uncontroversial moral fact There are lots and lots of philosophers who would argue with you here. Morality and facts are disjoint sets to some.
    - tremendulo 9y ago
      'Uncontroversial statement' if they prefer. I'd be happy to nitpick with them provided they aren't murdering people or sending their babies to preschool. https://www.edge.org/response-detail/11271 https://www.edge.org/response-detail/11271
  - lovemenot 9y ago
    You have already elided from fundamentally wrong to not as good as. So this is moving in the right direction. I would ask you to take the next step with me. Please acknowledge, the points below can be true sometimes: - Some Day Care will offer more love and attention than some parents - Some children who attend poor quality day-care as two year-olds will grow to become just as mature or balanced as most of their their stay-at-home peers. All I wanted to do is to show that this situation is more nuanced than "fundamentally wrong". I am afraid I don't subscribe to your morality. At best, it puts the perfect in the way of the good. For many parents, at some point, day-care is surely the best choice available to them and we should not be quick to judge them as bad parents for doing so.
    - tremendulo 9y ago
      >puts the perfect in the way of the good No, that's what I'm arguing against. Parenting manuals are arguing minutiae while children are increasingly being brought up by strangers who don't love them. Of course there are exceptions. So what? >So this is moving in the right direction. Aren't you being a bit quick to judge here ;-)
mcv 9y ago
> while often getting fundamentals wrong, e.g. there are millions of two year olds in day care. You suggest there's something wrong with that, but I'm at a loss as to what it could be. Of course two year olds go to day care. Do you want to deny them their social development? I recommend starting daycare around 6 months. I'm personally really happy with our arrangement: I work 4 days, my wife works 4 days, and 3 days of daycare. We get to spend plenty of time with the kids, but we also have a (practically) full-time job and the kids get lots of time to play with other kids. I'd be more worried if millions of two year olds were not going to daycare.

ThrustVectoring 9y ago

>I also believe that as long as you love your children (which is very easy to do), and provide them with a safe environment where they can feel empowered to try things (a bit harder, but still very doable), they'll turn out fine. I'd add to that "teach a minimal level of social acceptability to behavior by the age of 2". There's a failure loop of "too annoying for playing with peers, leading to shunning, leading to not learning how to play nicely with others". You don't need to do much to steer children out of that, but you'll likely need to do some. Plus, children that don't annoy the heck out of you are much easier to love.

mcv 9y ago
I personally strongly recommend sending your kid to a daycare up to 3 days a week starting when they're about 6 months old. I've heard that before 6 months, it can be stressful, but after 6 months, they can get very attached to only the people they know, and not accept anyone else anymore, which can be a problem with babysitters, family, play dates, etc. So get them used to meeting other kids at an early age. It's great for their social development. Of course individual kids may vary, but it's a good thing to keep in mind.