5 ms·

He referred specifically to the California interior. Most counties not on the coast or bay have very affordable areas; I've driven the northern 2/3rds of I-5, m

He referred specifically to the California interior. Most counties not on the coast or bay have very affordable areas; I've driven the northern 2/3rds of I-5, most of US50, and all of I-80 in CA and seen hundreds of properties for a fraction of Bay Area prices. Things look different once outside of a Bay Area (or San Diego) bubble.

phkahler 9y ago
>> ...seen hundreds of properties for a fraction of Bay Area prices. Anything under 300K? How about 200K? A fraction of the Bay area doesn't necessarily mean affordable.
- ghaff 9y ago
  You look at, say, Fresno and there are properties for sale under $200K (although that's below the median of $300K+). I assume those are not the most attractive places but they certainly exist. That's the 5th most populous city in California so it's not exactly the middle of nowhere.
  - SaltyBackendGuy 9y ago
    > "... not exactly the middle of nowhere." Anecdotally, a of my friend moved from the Bay Area to Fresno and explicitly claims it's in the middle of nowhere.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      If you're in one of the largest cities in the state, I'd suggest you're pretty much not in the middle of nowhere by definition--any more than, say, Las Vegas is. Now, one may reasonably not like Fresno but that's a different matter.
      - DoreenMichele 9y ago
        I have some sympathy for why people feel there's nothing in Fresno. For a major city, it isn't very urban. It sprawls tremendously. There isn't really an urban core with high rises anywhere. It lacks a lot of amenities that people expect when moving to a big city. Music events at Woodward Park often attracted women in shorts or skirts and cowboy boots. Culturally, the city reads sort of like half a million farmers and ranchers decided to move to the suburbs. It is a fairly unique city, with an international airport and multiple national forests nearby. But "check out the natural beauty of our great outdoors!" is typically a small town or rural marketing pitch, not the pitch of a major city. Last I checked, it was the 5th largest city in California and I think the 34th largest in the US. So I think there are 20 US states that don't have a city of that size. The entire state of Wyoming, our least populous state, has about the same number of people as the city of Fresno, in the neighborhood of about a half million apiece. Fresno is a very unusual city and I think most people can't really relate to it. I spent considerable time baffled by its terrible reputation and simultaneously trying to wrap my mind around the place. It isn't like most big cities. It has a terrible reputation for air quality. I found that weird when I lived there because I could see the stars at night better than anyplace else I had lived. On the other hand, moving elsewhere has dramatically improved my health. So, in retrospect, I think there are serious environmental issues there, though I am not entirely sure what they are because I remain baffled by the idea that air quality there is extremely bad when the stars are so much more visible than I am used to.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    I lived in Fresno. A lot of the stuff under $200k is a trailer, possibly a trailer in a seniors only retirement community. I don't consider trailers fit for habitation and my two adult sons still live with me. This is part of why I want details. I need a house under $100k. After looking at what that kind of money buys in Cali -- anywhere in Cali -- and looking at what it buys outside of Cali, I eventually concluded it made more sense to go elsewhere. If you can't afford at least $200k in Cali, you can expect it to be a shithole. It would undermine my fragile health and also need ten's of thousands of dollars worth of work. I am happy to buy a fixer, but not one that will ruin my health and my finances.
    - ChuckMcM 9y ago
      I can see that you're facing challenges that put you in an untenable situation. And no, I haven't seen any place in California that has any sort of public services and employment prospects and housing where you own the house and land for under $100K.
      - DoreenMichele 9y ago
        Thank you. I don't even need employment prospects. I have alimony and I make my money online. So that wasn't even a factor, and, no, it didn't fly in Cali.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > That's the 5th most populous city in California so it's not exactly the middle of nowhere. It really is the middle of nowhere, despite being the fifth most populous city in the state. But, you say, how can that be: the bigger cities are all embedded in even bigger urban clusters [0]. Fresno is, well, in the middle of nowhere. [0] And even the smaller central cities; Sacramento, is a little smaller than Fresno if you look at the city itself, but the metro area is a time and a half the Fresno metro area.
- amyjess 9y ago
  Houses under $200K in Bakersfield, CA: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Bakersfield-CA/3506_rid/0-200000_price/0-783_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/35.548429,-118.649598,35.092945,-119.387742_rect/10_zm/ https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Bakersfield-CA/3506_ri...
  - gyrgtyn 9y ago
    The two best suggestions are Bakersfield and Fresno (edit: or the middle of unincorporated desert LOL) You're telling OP to live in hell and it still costs more than they can afford.
    - amyjess 9y ago
      Per Wikipedia [0]: > Between 1970 and 2010, Bakersfield grew 400% (from 70,000 to 347,483),[33] making it one of the fastest growing cities in California.[17] It can't be too much hell if so many people want to live there that the population quadrupled in 40 years. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakersfield,_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakersfield,_California
      - gyrgtyn 9y ago
        Does that follow? Here, I found another example: > Between 1968 and 1975 the Dubai's population grew by over 300% Maybe OP could find a sweet oil job there!
        DoreenMichele 9y ago
        I am sorry you got downvoted. I have been to Bakersfield. I absolutely consider it undesirable. I don't know if you realize it, but oil is, in fact, a big part of the economy in Bakersfield. And air quality is terrible because of it. https://www.bing.com/search?q=bakersfield+economy+oil&FORM=EMMXS1&PC=GOOGLE-PLAY&refcv=DlhFMZpVNgVEvAOy.0.0.18.1670 https://www.bing.com/search?q=bakersfield+economy+oil&FORM=E...
DoreenMichele 9y ago
I was in Fresno for more than 2 years. I spent a lot of time doing research on the internet. I was willing to move anywhere within California where I could afford to buy a house and where I could make my life work without a car. This means, no, it can't be some cabin in the middle of nowhere where you have to drive for an hour to get to a grocery store. I would still be interested in the OPs answer. I wasn't just living on the coast or researching coastal communities before finally looking elsewhere and ultimately leaving.
- Joe-Z 9y ago
  May I ask where you ended up? If you're uncomfortable sharing the city, state would be fine. But: Where are the walkable cities in the US? I (coming from Europe) travelled on the East and West coast and both times was astounded by how much US living relies on having a car. I'm myself pretty anti-car-ownership by now, but I think this is much easier to do in European cities.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    I am in a small town in Washington state, maybe a couple of hours from Seattle. It doesn't have everything I want, but I am off the street and my life is slowly coming together here. One of the reasons I ended up here: I had no problem arranging to get here affordably and efficiently via train and intercity bus. Many of the small towns I researched in the western half of the US were a case of "Good luck trying to get there!" and/or would have cost a great deal more just to get there, on the order of two to three times what it cost me for train and bus tickets to get here just for tickets. And the reality is that if you travel for a couple of days or so, you want the sleeper car if possible or to stay at a hotel at some point, etc. Thus,the places that are that hard to get to wind up having additional expenses involved in just getting there. An additional benefit of that is that I don't feel trapped here. If I want to go somewhere for any reason, whether for travel or to move again, getting out of here without a car is not some intimidating obstacle. I can readily get on an intercity bus and go to a variety of places in this region. I haven't looked into it, but I imagine it would not be too hard to get to the Seattle Tacoma International Airport and, from there, out into the world. I was a military wife for a lot of years. I like living within a couple of hours of a major city and a major airport. I have not flown in years, but I have friends and family all over the planet and I always keep it in mind that I might need access to the ability to seriously travel. Many years ago, I previously lived in Richland, WA and its downtown center was fairly pedestrian friendly as well. I don't know how easily you could get there without a car. It did not make my radar for where to go to get off the street.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Most counties not on the coast or bay have very affordable areas Very affordable by coastal standards, but with very low incomes by coastal standards, too. Which somewhat offsets the affordability, unless you are talking about, e.g., long-distance commuters working in the Bay Area. Nevertheless, yes, the interior is better at meeting the targets for Low and Very Low income affordable housing as specified in the report finding the 97.6% miss rate; lots of the interior jurisdictions are only missing on the Above Modest income targets. (Though there are exceptions, e.g., Fresno County also misses on the lower income targets.)

phkahler 9y ago

>> ...seen hundreds of properties for a fraction of Bay Area prices. Anything under 300K? How about 200K? A fraction of the Bay area doesn't necessarily mean affordable.

ghaff 9y ago
You look at, say, Fresno and there are properties for sale under $200K (although that's below the median of $300K+). I assume those are not the most attractive places but they certainly exist. That's the 5th most populous city in California so it's not exactly the middle of nowhere.
- SaltyBackendGuy 9y ago
  > "... not exactly the middle of nowhere." Anecdotally, a of my friend moved from the Bay Area to Fresno and explicitly claims it's in the middle of nowhere.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    If you're in one of the largest cities in the state, I'd suggest you're pretty much not in the middle of nowhere by definition--any more than, say, Las Vegas is. Now, one may reasonably not like Fresno but that's a different matter.
    - DoreenMichele 9y ago
      I have some sympathy for why people feel there's nothing in Fresno. For a major city, it isn't very urban. It sprawls tremendously. There isn't really an urban core with high rises anywhere. It lacks a lot of amenities that people expect when moving to a big city. Music events at Woodward Park often attracted women in shorts or skirts and cowboy boots. Culturally, the city reads sort of like half a million farmers and ranchers decided to move to the suburbs. It is a fairly unique city, with an international airport and multiple national forests nearby. But "check out the natural beauty of our great outdoors!" is typically a small town or rural marketing pitch, not the pitch of a major city. Last I checked, it was the 5th largest city in California and I think the 34th largest in the US. So I think there are 20 US states that don't have a city of that size. The entire state of Wyoming, our least populous state, has about the same number of people as the city of Fresno, in the neighborhood of about a half million apiece. Fresno is a very unusual city and I think most people can't really relate to it. I spent considerable time baffled by its terrible reputation and simultaneously trying to wrap my mind around the place. It isn't like most big cities. It has a terrible reputation for air quality. I found that weird when I lived there because I could see the stars at night better than anyplace else I had lived. On the other hand, moving elsewhere has dramatically improved my health. So, in retrospect, I think there are serious environmental issues there, though I am not entirely sure what they are because I remain baffled by the idea that air quality there is extremely bad when the stars are so much more visible than I am used to.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  I lived in Fresno. A lot of the stuff under $200k is a trailer, possibly a trailer in a seniors only retirement community. I don't consider trailers fit for habitation and my two adult sons still live with me. This is part of why I want details. I need a house under $100k. After looking at what that kind of money buys in Cali -- anywhere in Cali -- and looking at what it buys outside of Cali, I eventually concluded it made more sense to go elsewhere. If you can't afford at least $200k in Cali, you can expect it to be a shithole. It would undermine my fragile health and also need ten's of thousands of dollars worth of work. I am happy to buy a fixer, but not one that will ruin my health and my finances.
  - ChuckMcM 9y ago
    I can see that you're facing challenges that put you in an untenable situation. And no, I haven't seen any place in California that has any sort of public services and employment prospects and housing where you own the house and land for under $100K.
    - DoreenMichele 9y ago
      Thank you. I don't even need employment prospects. I have alimony and I make my money online. So that wasn't even a factor, and, no, it didn't fly in Cali.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > That's the 5th most populous city in California so it's not exactly the middle of nowhere. It really is the middle of nowhere, despite being the fifth most populous city in the state. But, you say, how can that be: the bigger cities are all embedded in even bigger urban clusters [0]. Fresno is, well, in the middle of nowhere. [0] And even the smaller central cities; Sacramento, is a little smaller than Fresno if you look at the city itself, but the metro area is a time and a half the Fresno metro area.
amyjess 9y ago
Houses under $200K in Bakersfield, CA: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Bakersfield-CA/3506_rid/0-200000_price/0-783_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/35.548429,-118.649598,35.092945,-119.387742_rect/10_zm/ https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Bakersfield-CA/3506_ri...
- gyrgtyn 9y ago
  The two best suggestions are Bakersfield and Fresno (edit: or the middle of unincorporated desert LOL) You're telling OP to live in hell and it still costs more than they can afford.
  - amyjess 9y ago
    Per Wikipedia [0]: > Between 1970 and 2010, Bakersfield grew 400% (from 70,000 to 347,483),[33] making it one of the fastest growing cities in California.[17] It can't be too much hell if so many people want to live there that the population quadrupled in 40 years. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakersfield,_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakersfield,_California
    - gyrgtyn 9y ago
      Does that follow? Here, I found another example: > Between 1968 and 1975 the Dubai's population grew by over 300% Maybe OP could find a sweet oil job there!
      - DoreenMichele 9y ago
        I am sorry you got downvoted. I have been to Bakersfield. I absolutely consider it undesirable. I don't know if you realize it, but oil is, in fact, a big part of the economy in Bakersfield. And air quality is terrible because of it. https://www.bing.com/search?q=bakersfield+economy+oil&FORM=EMMXS1&PC=GOOGLE-PLAY&refcv=DlhFMZpVNgVEvAOy.0.0.18.1670 https://www.bing.com/search?q=bakersfield+economy+oil&FORM=E...

DoreenMichele 9y ago

I was in Fresno for more than 2 years. I spent a lot of time doing research on the internet. I was willing to move anywhere within California where I could afford to buy a house and where I could make my life work without a car. This means, no, it can't be some cabin in the middle of nowhere where you have to drive for an hour to get to a grocery store. I would still be interested in the OPs answer. I wasn't just living on the coast or researching coastal communities before finally looking elsewhere and ultimately leaving.

Joe-Z 9y ago
May I ask where you ended up? If you're uncomfortable sharing the city, state would be fine. But: Where are the walkable cities in the US? I (coming from Europe) travelled on the East and West coast and both times was astounded by how much US living relies on having a car. I'm myself pretty anti-car-ownership by now, but I think this is much easier to do in European cities.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  I am in a small town in Washington state, maybe a couple of hours from Seattle. It doesn't have everything I want, but I am off the street and my life is slowly coming together here. One of the reasons I ended up here: I had no problem arranging to get here affordably and efficiently via train and intercity bus. Many of the small towns I researched in the western half of the US were a case of "Good luck trying to get there!" and/or would have cost a great deal more just to get there, on the order of two to three times what it cost me for train and bus tickets to get here just for tickets. And the reality is that if you travel for a couple of days or so, you want the sleeper car if possible or to stay at a hotel at some point, etc. Thus,the places that are that hard to get to wind up having additional expenses involved in just getting there. An additional benefit of that is that I don't feel trapped here. If I want to go somewhere for any reason, whether for travel or to move again, getting out of here without a car is not some intimidating obstacle. I can readily get on an intercity bus and go to a variety of places in this region. I haven't looked into it, but I imagine it would not be too hard to get to the Seattle Tacoma International Airport and, from there, out into the world. I was a military wife for a lot of years. I like living within a couple of hours of a major city and a major airport. I have not flown in years, but I have friends and family all over the planet and I always keep it in mind that I might need access to the ability to seriously travel. Many years ago, I previously lived in Richland, WA and its downtown center was fairly pedestrian friendly as well. I don't know how easily you could get there without a car. It did not make my radar for where to go to get off the street.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Most counties not on the coast or bay have very affordable areas Very affordable by coastal standards, but with very low incomes by coastal standards, too. Which somewhat offsets the affordability, unless you are talking about, e.g., long-distance commuters working in the Bay Area. Nevertheless, yes, the interior is better at meeting the targets for Low and Very Low income affordable housing as specified in the report finding the 97.6% miss rate; lots of the interior jurisdictions are only missing on the Above Modest income targets. (Though there are exceptions, e.g., Fresno County also misses on the lower income targets.)