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> Until the politicians find courage to acknowledge that it was a mistake to trust organized crime to control the supply of addictive substances, [...] What wo

> Until the politicians find courage to acknowledge that it was a mistake to trust organized crime to control the supply of addictive substances, [...] What would be a better solution in your opinion? Legalizing it, or allowing it with prescription? I see some problems with those alternatives as well; there's probably no magic bullet here.

colechristensen 9y ago
Make everything legal to obtain or manufacture with a license attainable though education and certification – something in between what it takes to get a driver's license and an AA degree. If you want to buy heroin you have to understand it's addictive qualities, how human biology is affected, and how to recognize the negative consequences. Attach liability to the licensee for anything purchased that resulted in harm and to distributing substances with incorrect descriptions.
- throwaway9990 9y ago
  Would have loved for this to work, but there might be a few problems. 1. Some people might pass the test and sell it to others who didn't. 2. I'm not sure how education helps here. Everyone who takes heroin/cocaine knows how bad it is. I think people actually think it's much worse than it is. After taking a "health" class in high school, my friends and I said "wow, I thought drugs are much worse". For example, they showed a recording of a lady taking MDMA and enjoying it in her room. From what I was taught before that, I assumed she must die or commit suicide immediately or must start craving another dose a day later. Same thing with marijuana. "It's bad, but we can't tell you why except some potential side effects that may or may not occur"
  - chefkoch 9y ago
    > 1. Some people might pass the test and sell it to others who didn't. How would this be worse than now? And there would not be enough money to make for "full time" dealer.
  - senorjazz 9y ago
    >2. I'm not sure how education helps here. Everyone who takes heroin/cocaine knows how bad it is. I think people actually think it's much worse than it is. Respectfully, you are wrong. Nothing wrong at all going to the pub, having a few beers with friends and sharing a gram of coke. Heroin itself isn't bad, is actually quite useful medically. Just like drinking a bottle of whiskey is not good for you, but has a tiny relation to have a beer after work, the same for coke / heroin. > After taking a "health" class in high school, my friends and I said "wow, I thought drugs are much worse". For example, they showed a recording of a lady taking MDMA and enjoying it in her room. That is 99% the experience people have with MDMA. They have fun and no problems. So if the result of truthful information is people go out and have fun safely with zero problems, then what is the problem? Legalise all drugs without discrimination. Provide true information and have access to health, mentalhealth workers at the place of purchase. Most opiate addicts do not want the life they have, but when 100% of your waking day is spent searching for the money to get your drugs / using drugs / feeling the effects of the drugs you have next to no time to seek help for the root cause of your issues. Provide these people with free medical grade drugs and other a support system for helping them become a part of society with the honest admission some people will never get clean, but if can be funded their drug can leave (relatively) normal lives as a functioning member of society
  - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    1. So, it'd be like alcohol and tobacco, then? At least the product they are selling will have standards of purity and things like that. 2. Education that doesn't involve scare tactics provides things like proper expectations, safety on dosage, and things like that. MOst drug education in the US has scare tactics - like your reference to cocaine. Most healthy folks can do a little bit every once in a while and have few to no side effects. Same for MDMA, but folks should know that taking it too frequently can mess you and that you'll not be sober for a while. Folks get morphine and medical-grade heroin for pain without becoming instant addicts, so obviously it is safe in some situations. We can teach folks what to expect from pot edibles, mushrooms, and LSD. We can teach folks how to keep safe while doing a drug - how long before you should consider yourself no longer impaired, for example. Warning signs to seek medical attention are important to learn. Legalisation means folks aren't as likely to lie about it to cops and doctors.
- meri_dian 9y ago
  Education will not stop people from getting caught in the death grip of heroin. Just as education does not stop people from smoking cigarettes today. And once an addict is born, as they say, that person will struggle with addiction for the rest of their lives even if they manage to abstain. I'm all for legalization of marijuana, but legalization of heroin is a very poor idea. Heroin must be kept out of the hands of the people.
  - Xylakant 9y ago
    The death grip of heroin is mostly unrelated to the actual medical properties of heroin (or most opioids). The worst health effects come from the impurities in the substance (Strychnine, a common additive, is generally speaking not a substance beneficial to your health), the conditions under which it's used (shared needles, lack of hygiene) and the treadmill of having to organize funds for the next shot. Medically speaking, heroin is less harmful than alcohol. It's very hard to actually overdose if the purity is constant. It's a preferred drug for pallative care in many countries since it's effective and relatively easy to use (similar tor morphine). Heroin addicts on a constant regime of pure heroin can be well-functioning members of society. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment So if you truly care about the health of the afflicted persons, legalization with a strict control is the most effective option that is currently on the table.
    - meri_dian 9y ago
      I understand what you are saying. I agree that heroin by itself is not very harmful to the body relative to some other drugs. But let me be more clear about what I mean by "death grip". When someone cares so much about a drug that it becomes the focal point of their lives, where they become so utterly ruled by the object of their addiction that friends and family and all else not the drug become secondary fixtures in their lives, then they have become the walking dead and are very much in the death grip. I have seen it with friends. Some are still breathing, some are not. Sure people on medical grade heroin regimens can continue to exist, but the drug will kill them inside nonetheless. Revitalization is possible of course, but it is exceedingly difficult.
deleted 9y ago
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CaptainZapp 9y ago
How about supplying heroin under strict conditions and medical supervision? Switzerland went this route 20 years ago and I dare say it's pretty successful. The cost to health insurance (yep, they pay for it) is pretty much negligable. Especially when compared to the cost to the addicts and society to keep that shit completely underground.
fragmede 9y ago
There is a solution to the drug problem that is clear, simple, and wrong. As you put it, there is no magic bullet. However I hope we can all agree that the current war on drugs isn't working. We've been fighting it since (before) 1971, and prohibition isn't working. People are dying, and have been for decades. Just like we admit that 100% uptime is impossible, and admit that there's no solution that will make that possible, we instead work to minimize 500s to an often respectable number of nine's. Similarly, there is just no solution to the evils of addiction. What we can practice, however, is harm reduction, and injection sites have been one method that has been in use in Europe for decades. Can we agree that the drug war is a failure, and work on supporting harm reduction techniques?
deleted 9y ago
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colechristensen 9y ago

Make everything legal to obtain or manufacture with a license attainable though education and certification – something in between what it takes to get a driver's license and an AA degree. If you want to buy heroin you have to understand it's addictive qualities, how human biology is affected, and how to recognize the negative consequences. Attach liability to the licensee for anything purchased that resulted in harm and to distributing substances with incorrect descriptions.

throwaway9990 9y ago
Would have loved for this to work, but there might be a few problems. 1. Some people might pass the test and sell it to others who didn't. 2. I'm not sure how education helps here. Everyone who takes heroin/cocaine knows how bad it is. I think people actually think it's much worse than it is. After taking a "health" class in high school, my friends and I said "wow, I thought drugs are much worse". For example, they showed a recording of a lady taking MDMA and enjoying it in her room. From what I was taught before that, I assumed she must die or commit suicide immediately or must start craving another dose a day later. Same thing with marijuana. "It's bad, but we can't tell you why except some potential side effects that may or may not occur"
- chefkoch 9y ago
  > 1. Some people might pass the test and sell it to others who didn't. How would this be worse than now? And there would not be enough money to make for "full time" dealer.
- senorjazz 9y ago
  >2. I'm not sure how education helps here. Everyone who takes heroin/cocaine knows how bad it is. I think people actually think it's much worse than it is. Respectfully, you are wrong. Nothing wrong at all going to the pub, having a few beers with friends and sharing a gram of coke. Heroin itself isn't bad, is actually quite useful medically. Just like drinking a bottle of whiskey is not good for you, but has a tiny relation to have a beer after work, the same for coke / heroin. > After taking a "health" class in high school, my friends and I said "wow, I thought drugs are much worse". For example, they showed a recording of a lady taking MDMA and enjoying it in her room. That is 99% the experience people have with MDMA. They have fun and no problems. So if the result of truthful information is people go out and have fun safely with zero problems, then what is the problem? Legalise all drugs without discrimination. Provide true information and have access to health, mentalhealth workers at the place of purchase. Most opiate addicts do not want the life they have, but when 100% of your waking day is spent searching for the money to get your drugs / using drugs / feeling the effects of the drugs you have next to no time to seek help for the root cause of your issues. Provide these people with free medical grade drugs and other a support system for helping them become a part of society with the honest admission some people will never get clean, but if can be funded their drug can leave (relatively) normal lives as a functioning member of society
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  1. So, it'd be like alcohol and tobacco, then? At least the product they are selling will have standards of purity and things like that. 2. Education that doesn't involve scare tactics provides things like proper expectations, safety on dosage, and things like that. MOst drug education in the US has scare tactics - like your reference to cocaine. Most healthy folks can do a little bit every once in a while and have few to no side effects. Same for MDMA, but folks should know that taking it too frequently can mess you and that you'll not be sober for a while. Folks get morphine and medical-grade heroin for pain without becoming instant addicts, so obviously it is safe in some situations. We can teach folks what to expect from pot edibles, mushrooms, and LSD. We can teach folks how to keep safe while doing a drug - how long before you should consider yourself no longer impaired, for example. Warning signs to seek medical attention are important to learn. Legalisation means folks aren't as likely to lie about it to cops and doctors.
meri_dian 9y ago
Education will not stop people from getting caught in the death grip of heroin. Just as education does not stop people from smoking cigarettes today. And once an addict is born, as they say, that person will struggle with addiction for the rest of their lives even if they manage to abstain. I'm all for legalization of marijuana, but legalization of heroin is a very poor idea. Heroin must be kept out of the hands of the people.
- Xylakant 9y ago
  The death grip of heroin is mostly unrelated to the actual medical properties of heroin (or most opioids). The worst health effects come from the impurities in the substance (Strychnine, a common additive, is generally speaking not a substance beneficial to your health), the conditions under which it's used (shared needles, lack of hygiene) and the treadmill of having to organize funds for the next shot. Medically speaking, heroin is less harmful than alcohol. It's very hard to actually overdose if the purity is constant. It's a preferred drug for pallative care in many countries since it's effective and relatively easy to use (similar tor morphine). Heroin addicts on a constant regime of pure heroin can be well-functioning members of society. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment So if you truly care about the health of the afflicted persons, legalization with a strict control is the most effective option that is currently on the table.
  - meri_dian 9y ago
    I understand what you are saying. I agree that heroin by itself is not very harmful to the body relative to some other drugs. But let me be more clear about what I mean by "death grip". When someone cares so much about a drug that it becomes the focal point of their lives, where they become so utterly ruled by the object of their addiction that friends and family and all else not the drug become secondary fixtures in their lives, then they have become the walking dead and are very much in the death grip. I have seen it with friends. Some are still breathing, some are not. Sure people on medical grade heroin regimens can continue to exist, but the drug will kill them inside nonetheless. Revitalization is possible of course, but it is exceedingly difficult.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

CaptainZapp 9y ago

How about supplying heroin under strict conditions and medical supervision? Switzerland went this route 20 years ago and I dare say it's pretty successful. The cost to health insurance (yep, they pay for it) is pretty much negligable. Especially when compared to the cost to the addicts and society to keep that shit completely underground.

fragmede 9y ago

There is a solution to the drug problem that is clear, simple, and wrong. As you put it, there is no magic bullet. However I hope we can all agree that the current war on drugs isn't working. We've been fighting it since (before) 1971, and prohibition isn't working. People are dying, and have been for decades. Just like we admit that 100% uptime is impossible, and admit that there's no solution that will make that possible, we instead work to minimize 500s to an often respectable number of nine's. Similarly, there is just no solution to the evils of addiction. What we can practice, however, is harm reduction, and injection sites have been one method that has been in use in Europe for decades. Can we agree that the drug war is a failure, and work on supporting harm reduction techniques?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]