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In days gone by, heroin addicts knew how much heroin they needed to 'stay well'. A major factor in the escalation of deaths in the modern era is the contaminat

In days gone by, heroin addicts knew how much heroin they needed to 'stay well'. A major factor in the escalation of deaths in the modern era is the contamination of the street pharmacy's heroin supply with more potent synthetic opioids (fentanyl, etc). Overdoses happen when street drugs are more potent than the user expects, or when the user's tolerance has changed. Two factors in my girlfriend's OD were having been sober for 5 months and having been made addicted to clonazepam (a benzodiazepine that increases the potency of opiates - she'd only wanted this 'as needed', but the professionals at the hospitalization preceeding her OD thought she needed to take the full dose every day). That batch of heroin could also have been contaminated... A clean supply of heroin would be quite helpful in preventing people from killing themselves while self-medicating. Until the politicians find courage to acknowledge that it was a mistake to trust organized crime to control the supply of addictive substances, at least 'safe injection sites' is an intervention that can actually prevent people from causing their own premature expiration.

blauditore 9y ago
> Until the politicians find courage to acknowledge that it was a mistake to trust organized crime to control the supply of addictive substances, [...] What would be a better solution in your opinion? Legalizing it, or allowing it with prescription? I see some problems with those alternatives as well; there's probably no magic bullet here.
- colechristensen 9y ago
  Make everything legal to obtain or manufacture with a license attainable though education and certification – something in between what it takes to get a driver's license and an AA degree. If you want to buy heroin you have to understand it's addictive qualities, how human biology is affected, and how to recognize the negative consequences. Attach liability to the licensee for anything purchased that resulted in harm and to distributing substances with incorrect descriptions.
  - throwaway9990 9y ago
    Would have loved for this to work, but there might be a few problems. 1. Some people might pass the test and sell it to others who didn't. 2. I'm not sure how education helps here. Everyone who takes heroin/cocaine knows how bad it is. I think people actually think it's much worse than it is. After taking a "health" class in high school, my friends and I said "wow, I thought drugs are much worse". For example, they showed a recording of a lady taking MDMA and enjoying it in her room. From what I was taught before that, I assumed she must die or commit suicide immediately or must start craving another dose a day later. Same thing with marijuana. "It's bad, but we can't tell you why except some potential side effects that may or may not occur"
    - chefkoch 9y ago
      > 1. Some people might pass the test and sell it to others who didn't. How would this be worse than now? And there would not be enough money to make for "full time" dealer.
    - senorjazz 9y ago
      >2. I'm not sure how education helps here. Everyone who takes heroin/cocaine knows how bad it is. I think people actually think it's much worse than it is. Respectfully, you are wrong. Nothing wrong at all going to the pub, having a few beers with friends and sharing a gram of coke. Heroin itself isn't bad, is actually quite useful medically. Just like drinking a bottle of whiskey is not good for you, but has a tiny relation to have a beer after work, the same for coke / heroin. > After taking a "health" class in high school, my friends and I said "wow, I thought drugs are much worse". For example, they showed a recording of a lady taking MDMA and enjoying it in her room. That is 99% the experience people have with MDMA. They have fun and no problems. So if the result of truthful information is people go out and have fun safely with zero problems, then what is the problem? Legalise all drugs without discrimination. Provide true information and have access to health, mentalhealth workers at the place of purchase. Most opiate addicts do not want the life they have, but when 100% of your waking day is spent searching for the money to get your drugs / using drugs / feeling the effects of the drugs you have next to no time to seek help for the root cause of your issues. Provide these people with free medical grade drugs and other a support system for helping them become a part of society with the honest admission some people will never get clean, but if can be funded their drug can leave (relatively) normal lives as a functioning member of society
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- CaptainZapp 9y ago
  How about supplying heroin under strict conditions and medical supervision? Switzerland went this route 20 years ago and I dare say it's pretty successful. The cost to health insurance (yep, they pay for it) is pretty much negligable. Especially when compared to the cost to the addicts and society to keep that shit completely underground.
- fragmede 9y ago
  There is a solution to the drug problem that is clear, simple, and wrong. As you put it, there is no magic bullet. However I hope we can all agree that the current war on drugs isn't working. We've been fighting it since (before) 1971, and prohibition isn't working. People are dying, and have been for decades. Just like we admit that 100% uptime is impossible, and admit that there's no solution that will make that possible, we instead work to minimize 500s to an often respectable number of nine's. Similarly, there is just no solution to the evils of addiction. What we can practice, however, is harm reduction, and injection sites have been one method that has been in use in Europe for decades. Can we agree that the drug war is a failure, and work on supporting harm reduction techniques?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
bfuller 9y ago
Not really entirely true. I was an IV drug user before the fentanyl analogs started being pumped out of China and "hot shots" were always a thing.
- tcj_phx 9y ago
  Thanks for commenting - as always, the devil is in the details. Would any IV drug user risk getting a 'hot shot' if they had access to a supply of known potency?
  - bfuller 9y ago
    There will always be people that push the envelope because they are suicidal. But funny enough buying pure fentanyl is one of the only ways to get a powerful opiate with a known potency. You cant trust street dope because of the fentanyl, but if you order a pure fentanyl analog from China, and you are smart about dosing using volumetric dilution, you can be very aware exactly how much you are taking. Whereas with street dope, you will never know. But by definition, a supply of known potency will never cause a "hot shot" as long as you are being smart and responsible. The problem is some people don't "feel" high until they are pushing the limits of respiratory depression, so you will have people overdosing no matter what. I've known people that overdosed, were revived at the hospital, only to go home and shoot up again and die. Its very sad.

blauditore 9y ago

> Until the politicians find courage to acknowledge that it was a mistake to trust organized crime to control the supply of addictive substances, [...] What would be a better solution in your opinion? Legalizing it, or allowing it with prescription? I see some problems with those alternatives as well; there's probably no magic bullet here.

colechristensen 9y ago
Make everything legal to obtain or manufacture with a license attainable though education and certification – something in between what it takes to get a driver's license and an AA degree. If you want to buy heroin you have to understand it's addictive qualities, how human biology is affected, and how to recognize the negative consequences. Attach liability to the licensee for anything purchased that resulted in harm and to distributing substances with incorrect descriptions.
- throwaway9990 9y ago
  Would have loved for this to work, but there might be a few problems. 1. Some people might pass the test and sell it to others who didn't. 2. I'm not sure how education helps here. Everyone who takes heroin/cocaine knows how bad it is. I think people actually think it's much worse than it is. After taking a "health" class in high school, my friends and I said "wow, I thought drugs are much worse". For example, they showed a recording of a lady taking MDMA and enjoying it in her room. From what I was taught before that, I assumed she must die or commit suicide immediately or must start craving another dose a day later. Same thing with marijuana. "It's bad, but we can't tell you why except some potential side effects that may or may not occur"
  - chefkoch 9y ago
    > 1. Some people might pass the test and sell it to others who didn't. How would this be worse than now? And there would not be enough money to make for "full time" dealer.
  - senorjazz 9y ago
    >2. I'm not sure how education helps here. Everyone who takes heroin/cocaine knows how bad it is. I think people actually think it's much worse than it is. Respectfully, you are wrong. Nothing wrong at all going to the pub, having a few beers with friends and sharing a gram of coke. Heroin itself isn't bad, is actually quite useful medically. Just like drinking a bottle of whiskey is not good for you, but has a tiny relation to have a beer after work, the same for coke / heroin. > After taking a "health" class in high school, my friends and I said "wow, I thought drugs are much worse". For example, they showed a recording of a lady taking MDMA and enjoying it in her room. That is 99% the experience people have with MDMA. They have fun and no problems. So if the result of truthful information is people go out and have fun safely with zero problems, then what is the problem? Legalise all drugs without discrimination. Provide true information and have access to health, mentalhealth workers at the place of purchase. Most opiate addicts do not want the life they have, but when 100% of your waking day is spent searching for the money to get your drugs / using drugs / feeling the effects of the drugs you have next to no time to seek help for the root cause of your issues. Provide these people with free medical grade drugs and other a support system for helping them become a part of society with the honest admission some people will never get clean, but if can be funded their drug can leave (relatively) normal lives as a functioning member of society
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
CaptainZapp 9y ago
How about supplying heroin under strict conditions and medical supervision? Switzerland went this route 20 years ago and I dare say it's pretty successful. The cost to health insurance (yep, they pay for it) is pretty much negligable. Especially when compared to the cost to the addicts and society to keep that shit completely underground.
fragmede 9y ago
There is a solution to the drug problem that is clear, simple, and wrong. As you put it, there is no magic bullet. However I hope we can all agree that the current war on drugs isn't working. We've been fighting it since (before) 1971, and prohibition isn't working. People are dying, and have been for decades. Just like we admit that 100% uptime is impossible, and admit that there's no solution that will make that possible, we instead work to minimize 500s to an often respectable number of nine's. Similarly, there is just no solution to the evils of addiction. What we can practice, however, is harm reduction, and injection sites have been one method that has been in use in Europe for decades. Can we agree that the drug war is a failure, and work on supporting harm reduction techniques?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

bfuller 9y ago

Not really entirely true. I was an IV drug user before the fentanyl analogs started being pumped out of China and "hot shots" were always a thing.

tcj_phx 9y ago
Thanks for commenting - as always, the devil is in the details. Would any IV drug user risk getting a 'hot shot' if they had access to a supply of known potency?
- bfuller 9y ago
  There will always be people that push the envelope because they are suicidal. But funny enough buying pure fentanyl is one of the only ways to get a powerful opiate with a known potency. You cant trust street dope because of the fentanyl, but if you order a pure fentanyl analog from China, and you are smart about dosing using volumetric dilution, you can be very aware exactly how much you are taking. Whereas with street dope, you will never know. But by definition, a supply of known potency will never cause a "hot shot" as long as you are being smart and responsible. The problem is some people don't "feel" high until they are pushing the limits of respiratory depression, so you will have people overdosing no matter what. I've known people that overdosed, were revived at the hospital, only to go home and shoot up again and die. Its very sad.