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What made you decide to take the paid certificate route? I've browsed job boards for the past few months; but have seen that employers are increasingly looking

What made you decide to take the paid certificate route? I've browsed job boards for the past few months; but have seen that employers are increasingly looking for degrees as a minimum requirement versus having a Coursera certificate. Especially with regards to anything involving the ML space, it seems like employers are more interested in it as a supplement to a degree rather than being useful on its own.

jcadam 9y ago
Well, I have a BS in Comp Sci as well as an MBA. Moment of weakness, I guess. Besides, since I paid for it up front, I had that much more motivation to finish the course :) In any case, it's on the resume. No idea if it looks good or not. Of course, if I were really serious about it, maybe I ought to go for a PhD in CS. But at 37 years old, I'm approaching the end of my useful life as a software engineer. I understand I have to report to something called "Caoursel" on my 40th birthday, whatever that is. EDIT: Allright, I took it because at the time I was working as a software development "SME" on a program in which AI, ML and data science terms were being bandied about by the PhDs and I wanted to be able to sit in on meetings and at least follow the conversation (And not look completely stupid. Adopting a stern look and nodding along will only get you so far, occasionally you have to speak). The course largely fulfilled its purpose on that score.
- kregasaurusrex 9y ago
  I'm a bit younger on the age range at 23, and taking some time out of school since my grades and finances weren't quite where I wanted them to be. Would you say a person who has a handful of relevant Coursera certificates and does well on an interview would be able to compete against a degree holder who also did above average? For your case of staying current in newer tech I can see the market reason for taking it. People like Knuth who're well into their 70's still seem to find ways to remain relevant as well. What is the "Caoursel" you're referring to?
  - jcadam 9y ago
    It's a reference to the 70s sci-fi classic Logan's Run :) Also, I've worked with non-degree holders. If they were good, they managed to find employment. Though, often employers will use the lack of a degree as an excuse to pay less, which isn't right.
    - kregasaurusrex 9y ago
      Oddly enough, I was thinking about that on a bus ride today. How it's both normalized to value non-degreeholders less and for compensation to plateau at a lower rate. While I do think there's a skills gap that exists, having at least one degree seems entry-level for a lot of people nowadays. And Logan's Run looks like a neat movie, in my city we have a monthly mash-up of old films that play at an independent theater, so I'll check it out sometime.
  - fma 9y ago
    It would definitely depend where you apply. If you have no experience and no degree, you should have a GitHub to backup your claims - and apply to companies who would dig through that. There are certain companies and industries who would not touch you with a 10 foot poll w/o a degree, but hire a degree holder who sits there and looks pretty (i.e. government contractors, consulting). In reply to your Knuth comment...Tom Brady is 40 years old but you're not going to find many football players who are 40 and still playing in Super Bowls.
  - bitL 9y ago
    After 40 you'd be actively managed out by a company, even if you built their business from the scratch. You see it happening all the time, once you start thinking you should now reap rewards of your hard work, you'll be shown the door. Better start your own company and fight for life than to end up 40-year old unemployed burned out developer.
    - tinymollusk 9y ago
      ^ This is one person's opinion that reflects their own experience. I am a 35 year old who has done development, and may do it again in the future. I have kept my skillset updated by taking several AI courses during a sabbatical. If you are competing against a group that competes for roles that select for what you think is silly, you'll never win. This does not describe most startups; it may be an indicator of bad startups. There is age discrimination, for sure. In the startup cohort study of the future, I am quite confident those exhibiting this discrimination will not be on the successful side. Younger devs focus on their skills. Older devs focus on the value they bring to the company. Companies that focus on the latter will do better. YMMV, we live in a probabilistic world.
- pmarreck 9y ago
  > But at 37 years old, I'm approaching the end of my useful life as a software engineer I hope that’s not the case. 45 and still going strong...
  - bitL 9y ago
    I know MIT CS graduates with massive achievements that went long-term unemployed after hitting age 39 years. World is going insane.
    - pmarreck 9y ago
      It helps (unfortunately) if those 39+ year old coders stay fit and somewhat hip (god I hate that word, but if you are into, say, gaming, Game of Thrones and a recent-ish programming language, and you don't dress like you just stepped out of the 80's or 90's, it does seem to help). Additionally, MUCH more challenging if you are a parent. Fitness, jeans, sneakers, a hoodie and a laptop bookbag can hide a lot of off-putting "age" IMHO.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  But at 37 years old, I'm approaching the end of my useful life as a software engineer. I understand I have to report to something called "Caoursel" on my 40th birthday, whatever that is. I hope you are just trying to be darkly humorous about ageism because this reads like a plot point from a dystopian sci-fi horror movie.
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    It is the plot of a dystopian sci-fi horror movie. Literally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan%27s_Run_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan%27s_Run_(film) Relevant scene: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_wjXpTDuHiE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_wjXpTDuHiE
    - DoreenMichele 9y ago
      Thank you. I didn't recognize the reference because I never watched the full movie. It isn't anywhere near as good as the book and I think I turned it off after a few minutes.
      - IntronExon 9y ago
        No problem, I’m glad to help. I also strongly agree that the book was superior in every important respect.
      - webmaven 9y ago
        Since you read the book, did you also read any of the sequels?: https://www.goodreads.com/series/54090-logan https://www.goodreads.com/series/54090-logan
        DoreenMichele 9y ago
        No. I had no idea there were sequels.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- jcadam 9y ago
  Oh wow, looking at this the morning after I finally noticed I misspelled Carousel as "Caoursel." Too late to edit :)
harveynick 9y ago
Hi, post author here. I paid for the certificate as well. Partly out of curiosity, partly because I thought Coursera / Ng had “earned” it. I should probably update the post to say that...

jcadam 9y ago

Well, I have a BS in Comp Sci as well as an MBA. Moment of weakness, I guess. Besides, since I paid for it up front, I had that much more motivation to finish the course :) In any case, it's on the resume. No idea if it looks good or not. Of course, if I were really serious about it, maybe I ought to go for a PhD in CS. But at 37 years old, I'm approaching the end of my useful life as a software engineer. I understand I have to report to something called "Caoursel" on my 40th birthday, whatever that is. EDIT: Allright, I took it because at the time I was working as a software development "SME" on a program in which AI, ML and data science terms were being bandied about by the PhDs and I wanted to be able to sit in on meetings and at least follow the conversation (And not look completely stupid. Adopting a stern look and nodding along will only get you so far, occasionally you have to speak). The course largely fulfilled its purpose on that score.

kregasaurusrex 9y ago
I'm a bit younger on the age range at 23, and taking some time out of school since my grades and finances weren't quite where I wanted them to be. Would you say a person who has a handful of relevant Coursera certificates and does well on an interview would be able to compete against a degree holder who also did above average? For your case of staying current in newer tech I can see the market reason for taking it. People like Knuth who're well into their 70's still seem to find ways to remain relevant as well. What is the "Caoursel" you're referring to?
- jcadam 9y ago
  It's a reference to the 70s sci-fi classic Logan's Run :) Also, I've worked with non-degree holders. If they were good, they managed to find employment. Though, often employers will use the lack of a degree as an excuse to pay less, which isn't right.
  - kregasaurusrex 9y ago
    Oddly enough, I was thinking about that on a bus ride today. How it's both normalized to value non-degreeholders less and for compensation to plateau at a lower rate. While I do think there's a skills gap that exists, having at least one degree seems entry-level for a lot of people nowadays. And Logan's Run looks like a neat movie, in my city we have a monthly mash-up of old films that play at an independent theater, so I'll check it out sometime.
- fma 9y ago
  It would definitely depend where you apply. If you have no experience and no degree, you should have a GitHub to backup your claims - and apply to companies who would dig through that. There are certain companies and industries who would not touch you with a 10 foot poll w/o a degree, but hire a degree holder who sits there and looks pretty (i.e. government contractors, consulting). In reply to your Knuth comment...Tom Brady is 40 years old but you're not going to find many football players who are 40 and still playing in Super Bowls.
- bitL 9y ago
  After 40 you'd be actively managed out by a company, even if you built their business from the scratch. You see it happening all the time, once you start thinking you should now reap rewards of your hard work, you'll be shown the door. Better start your own company and fight for life than to end up 40-year old unemployed burned out developer.
  - tinymollusk 9y ago
    ^ This is one person's opinion that reflects their own experience. I am a 35 year old who has done development, and may do it again in the future. I have kept my skillset updated by taking several AI courses during a sabbatical. If you are competing against a group that competes for roles that select for what you think is silly, you'll never win. This does not describe most startups; it may be an indicator of bad startups. There is age discrimination, for sure. In the startup cohort study of the future, I am quite confident those exhibiting this discrimination will not be on the successful side. Younger devs focus on their skills. Older devs focus on the value they bring to the company. Companies that focus on the latter will do better. YMMV, we live in a probabilistic world.
pmarreck 9y ago
> But at 37 years old, I'm approaching the end of my useful life as a software engineer I hope that’s not the case. 45 and still going strong...
- bitL 9y ago
  I know MIT CS graduates with massive achievements that went long-term unemployed after hitting age 39 years. World is going insane.
  - pmarreck 9y ago
    It helps (unfortunately) if those 39+ year old coders stay fit and somewhat hip (god I hate that word, but if you are into, say, gaming, Game of Thrones and a recent-ish programming language, and you don't dress like you just stepped out of the 80's or 90's, it does seem to help). Additionally, MUCH more challenging if you are a parent. Fitness, jeans, sneakers, a hoodie and a laptop bookbag can hide a lot of off-putting "age" IMHO.
DoreenMichele 9y ago
But at 37 years old, I'm approaching the end of my useful life as a software engineer. I understand I have to report to something called "Caoursel" on my 40th birthday, whatever that is. I hope you are just trying to be darkly humorous about ageism because this reads like a plot point from a dystopian sci-fi horror movie.
- IntronExon 9y ago
  It is the plot of a dystopian sci-fi horror movie. Literally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan%27s_Run_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan%27s_Run_(film) Relevant scene: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_wjXpTDuHiE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_wjXpTDuHiE
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    Thank you. I didn't recognize the reference because I never watched the full movie. It isn't anywhere near as good as the book and I think I turned it off after a few minutes.
    - IntronExon 9y ago
      No problem, I’m glad to help. I also strongly agree that the book was superior in every important respect.
    - webmaven 9y ago
      Since you read the book, did you also read any of the sequels?: https://www.goodreads.com/series/54090-logan https://www.goodreads.com/series/54090-logan
      - DoreenMichele 9y ago
        No. I had no idea there were sequels.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
jcadam 9y ago
Oh wow, looking at this the morning after I finally noticed I misspelled Carousel as "Caoursel." Too late to edit :)

harveynick 9y ago

Hi, post author here. I paid for the certificate as well. Partly out of curiosity, partly because I thought Coursera / Ng had “earned” it. I should probably update the post to say that...