5 ms·

Funny thing. After all these year it actually seems like Java now has the upper hand. It is an open platform. You are just as productive as a developer on Unix

by chvid 9y ago

Funny thing. After all these year it actually seems like Java now has the upper hand. It is an open platform. You are just as productive as a developer on Unix and Mac OS X as you are on Windows. The "toolchain" with things like Maven, build and dependency management, is well-defined and not buggled into a big IDE like it is on C#. Deploying on Unix is a standard thing, not an experimental feature. And finally there is Android. Sure Java as a langage is more conservative but the differences are not that big. And there are alternatives like Scala or Kotlin for those want and they seem to be a minority.

SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
> It is an open platform. You are just as productive as a developer on Unix and Mac OS X as you are on Windows. How is that any different from .Net core? Open platform, check (1) productive on those platforms, check (2) > buggled into a big IDE like it is on C#. Nope. dotnet cli is fine standalone (3) > Deploying on Unix is a standard thing, not an experimental feature. Um, it might be fairly new but I would not call that platform target "experimental" any more. It's in version 2 now > And finally there is Android. Yes there is. I know teams that write in C# for Android and iOS. (4) C# is late to the party in this regard. But what you are saying isn't correct. 1) https://github.com/dotnet https://github.com/dotnet 2) https://code.visualstudio.com/ https://code.visualstudio.com/ 3) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/dotnet?tabs=netcore2x https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/dotnet?ta... 4) https://www.xamarin.com/ https://www.xamarin.com/
- chvid 9y ago
  Java is the primary development langauge for Android. You can't really compare that to the stuff you are listing. Can I run Visual Studio on my macbook? Does any of the companies developing webapps in C# actually deploy on Unix? MS might aspire to have that broadness of platform but it is not actually there. It is in the Java world.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
    > Can I run Visual Studio on my macbook? Visual Studio Code, yes. People do that. I see it at my employer. But ultimately it's not tied to a particular IDE. You could e.g. use JetBrains Rider (1) on your mac. You could use the likes of Sublime text, the command line tools and a plugin (2) if you want. > Does any of the companies developing webapps in C# actually deploy on Unix? Some of them do yes, and more of them will. AWS Lambda functions too. (3) I see both of those (.Net core web apps and lambda functions) at my employer. > MS might aspire to have that broadness of platform Correct, this a fairly new aspiration > but it is not actually there. You know, it's ok to say "I don't actually know that particular technology very well, I'm not keeping up to date with recent developments in that space." Nobody tracks everything. You don't have to make strong statements about things that you don't know much about. 1) https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/ https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/ 2) http://www.omnisharp.net/ http://www.omnisharp.net/ 3) https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/aws-lambda-net-core-2-0-support-released/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/aws-lambda-net-core-2...
    - chvid 9y ago
      Vscode is not vs. I didn’t want to go into a detailed argument. Just look at the broad lines of what happens in practice. On one side you have a diverse environment with different development machines, deployment machines and so on. On the other side you don’t have diversity. It is as simple as that.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
        No, VSCode is not VS and that's a good thing, VS is a beast, you called it "a big IDE" and that's true, VS code is much lighter. But did you miss the three other development options listed for .Net on mac? : Visual Studio For Mac, Jetbrains Rider, and bring your own editor. > didn’t want to go into a detailed argument. It is as simple as that. Things are usually only simple from a distance. How much time have you spent up close to .Net in the last 2 years? For my part, I have spend no time close to Java lately, and that is why I don't hold forth strong opinions about Java: because I would be a fount of ignorance. I'd rather listen to those who have more experience with it. > On the other side you don’t have diversity. That might have been universal a while back, but it really is not any more. Facts have been laid out above and you keep repeating your assertion. It's just prejudice. Is this something that you want to be true? Look, the .Net ecosystem is changing for very valid reasons, and in a great direction. It has changed a lot at a sustained pace over the last few years, and that will not stop. Some employers and industries have not changed yet, and that's fine, many places are happy in their niche, be it .Net and Windows or Java and Linux. However your universal assertions are outdated, and will be increasingly irrelevant.
nathanaldensr 9y ago
Your comment couldn't be more wrong. .NET Core is an open platform, and has been for some time, with its framework and runtime hosted on GitHub. .NET Core's toolchain is a simple CLI which integrates with many popular CI/CD solutions (e.g., TeamCity). .NET Core has been stable on several Linux distros for many months and can hardly be characterized as "experimental." C# has a cross-platform, lightweight editor in VSCode--no Visual Studio required. I suggest you update your knowledge before spreading blatantly incorrect information like this.

by chvid 9y ago

SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago

> It is an open platform. You are just as productive as a developer on Unix and Mac OS X as you are on Windows. How is that any different from .Net core? Open platform, check (1) productive on those platforms, check (2) > buggled into a big IDE like it is on C#. Nope. dotnet cli is fine standalone (3) > Deploying on Unix is a standard thing, not an experimental feature. Um, it might be fairly new but I would not call that platform target "experimental" any more. It's in version 2 now > And finally there is Android. Yes there is. I know teams that write in C# for Android and iOS. (4) C# is late to the party in this regard. But what you are saying isn't correct. 1) https://github.com/dotnet https://github.com/dotnet 2) https://code.visualstudio.com/ https://code.visualstudio.com/ 3) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/dotnet?tabs=netcore2x https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/dotnet?ta... 4) https://www.xamarin.com/ https://www.xamarin.com/

chvid 9y ago
Java is the primary development langauge for Android. You can't really compare that to the stuff you are listing. Can I run Visual Studio on my macbook? Does any of the companies developing webapps in C# actually deploy on Unix? MS might aspire to have that broadness of platform but it is not actually there. It is in the Java world.
- SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
  > Can I run Visual Studio on my macbook? Visual Studio Code, yes. People do that. I see it at my employer. But ultimately it's not tied to a particular IDE. You could e.g. use JetBrains Rider (1) on your mac. You could use the likes of Sublime text, the command line tools and a plugin (2) if you want. > Does any of the companies developing webapps in C# actually deploy on Unix? Some of them do yes, and more of them will. AWS Lambda functions too. (3) I see both of those (.Net core web apps and lambda functions) at my employer. > MS might aspire to have that broadness of platform Correct, this a fairly new aspiration > but it is not actually there. You know, it's ok to say "I don't actually know that particular technology very well, I'm not keeping up to date with recent developments in that space." Nobody tracks everything. You don't have to make strong statements about things that you don't know much about. 1) https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/ https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/ 2) http://www.omnisharp.net/ http://www.omnisharp.net/ 3) https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/aws-lambda-net-core-2-0-support-released/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/developer/aws-lambda-net-core-2...
  - chvid 9y ago
    Vscode is not vs. I didn’t want to go into a detailed argument. Just look at the broad lines of what happens in practice. On one side you have a diverse environment with different development machines, deployment machines and so on. On the other side you don’t have diversity. It is as simple as that.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 9y ago
      No, VSCode is not VS and that's a good thing, VS is a beast, you called it "a big IDE" and that's true, VS code is much lighter. But did you miss the three other development options listed for .Net on mac? : Visual Studio For Mac, Jetbrains Rider, and bring your own editor. > didn’t want to go into a detailed argument. It is as simple as that. Things are usually only simple from a distance. How much time have you spent up close to .Net in the last 2 years? For my part, I have spend no time close to Java lately, and that is why I don't hold forth strong opinions about Java: because I would be a fount of ignorance. I'd rather listen to those who have more experience with it. > On the other side you don’t have diversity. That might have been universal a while back, but it really is not any more. Facts have been laid out above and you keep repeating your assertion. It's just prejudice. Is this something that you want to be true? Look, the .Net ecosystem is changing for very valid reasons, and in a great direction. It has changed a lot at a sustained pace over the last few years, and that will not stop. Some employers and industries have not changed yet, and that's fine, many places are happy in their niche, be it .Net and Windows or Java and Linux. However your universal assertions are outdated, and will be increasingly irrelevant.

nathanaldensr 9y ago

Your comment couldn't be more wrong. .NET Core is an open platform, and has been for some time, with its framework and runtime hosted on GitHub. .NET Core's toolchain is a simple CLI which integrates with many popular CI/CD solutions (e.g., TeamCity). .NET Core has been stable on several Linux distros for many months and can hardly be characterized as "experimental." C# has a cross-platform, lightweight editor in VSCode--no Visual Studio required. I suggest you update your knowledge before spreading blatantly incorrect information like this.