3 ms·

> We may also still hold old world values/moral beliefs, such as monogamy, dear. I think monogamy spread because St. Augustine made it part of the Roman Cathol

> We may also still hold old world values/moral beliefs, such as monogamy, dear. I think monogamy spread because St. Augustine made it part of the Roman Catholic dogma that became the foundation for all Christian dogma, Christianity took over Europe, and then Europe colonized pretty much the rest of the world. I tend to think if things had gone differently, we'd be looking at a polygamous world. (Edit: Did I just argue sexuality is a social construct? Oy vey...)

woodall 16y ago
I too believe that some sort of social movement/ideal had something to do with us animals straying from our regular habits, however, I do not think Saint Augustine had anything to do with. I say this because the Iliad, and other works predating Christianity, put value on monogamy. We do have characters like Zesus who loved to play around with many women, but we also see what types of trouble that caused him. I believe that both male and female played a proactive part in what we now have today. In the third link there is a rather interesting theory as to how it all started(hint: women made us do it).
- billswift 16y ago
  Your "hint" is wrong. Women benefit more when they are able to share wealthier or more powerful males than when they are stuck as the wife of some loser. It is the weaker males that benefit most; and the overall birth rate. Agriculture is the source of monogamy, as the population that had the higher birth rate tended (very quickly) to overrun those with smaller populations.
wazoox 16y ago
>I think monogamy spread because St. Augustine made it > part of the Roman Catholic dogma that became the > foundation for all Christian dogma Hum, monogamy was the norm in the Roman and greek world anyway. And wasn't monogamy the common jewish habit, too? It predates christianity by centuries, anyway.
- lionhearted 16y ago
  > Hum, monogamy was the norm in the Roman and greek world anyway. And wasn't monogamy the common jewish habit, too? It predates christianity by centuries, anyway. Sort of - I'm under the impression that Greek and Roman monogamy was more "soft monogamy" so to speak. You had your wife, but then you were free to do whatever your like beyond that as long as you didn't break your duty to the family, yes? Interesting, most of the patriarchs in the Bible were polygamous, it was a famous rabbi's teachings (forget which one) that mandated monogamy as the way. For instance, here's Wikipedia on Abraham: "Jews, Christians, and Muslims consider him father of the people of Israel. For Jews and Christians this is through his son Isaac,[2] by his wife Sarah; for Muslims, he is a prophet of Islam and the ancestor of Muhammad through his other son Ishmael, born to him by Sarah's handmaiden, Hagar." King Solomon was known for his many wives. I think hard monogamy - no prostitution, no bisexuality, no mistresses, concubines, or sexual relations with slaves - was largely established as the norm by Christianity. I know the Romans and Greeks definitely had other lovers and orgies and things like that, whereas once the Roman Catholic Church was established by Constantine this sort of thing was outlawed pretty quickly.
  - joshuacc 16y ago
    Just a minor point: Constantine didn't "establish" the Catholic Church in the sense of making it the official religion. Rather, he issued a decree which made it legal to practice Christianity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Milan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Milan
    - lionhearted 16y ago
      This is correct, my mistake. Constantine de-criminalized Christianity, Theodosius made it the official religion of Rome at the Council of Nicea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_I#Nicene_Christianity_becomes_the_state_religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_I#Nicene_Christianit...
- tkahn6 16y ago
  Polygamy was part of Jewish dogma at one point but the Rabbis came up with an interpretation that forbade it. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/558598/jewish/Does-Jewish-law-forbid-polygamy.htm http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/558598/jewish/...

woodall 16y ago

I too believe that some sort of social movement/ideal had something to do with us animals straying from our regular habits, however, I do not think Saint Augustine had anything to do with. I say this because the Iliad, and other works predating Christianity, put value on monogamy. We do have characters like Zesus who loved to play around with many women, but we also see what types of trouble that caused him. I believe that both male and female played a proactive part in what we now have today. In the third link there is a rather interesting theory as to how it all started(hint: women made us do it).

billswift 16y ago
Your "hint" is wrong. Women benefit more when they are able to share wealthier or more powerful males than when they are stuck as the wife of some loser. It is the weaker males that benefit most; and the overall birth rate. Agriculture is the source of monogamy, as the population that had the higher birth rate tended (very quickly) to overrun those with smaller populations.

wazoox 16y ago

>I think monogamy spread because St. Augustine made it > part of the Roman Catholic dogma that became the > foundation for all Christian dogma Hum, monogamy was the norm in the Roman and greek world anyway. And wasn't monogamy the common jewish habit, too? It predates christianity by centuries, anyway.

lionhearted 16y ago
> Hum, monogamy was the norm in the Roman and greek world anyway. And wasn't monogamy the common jewish habit, too? It predates christianity by centuries, anyway. Sort of - I'm under the impression that Greek and Roman monogamy was more "soft monogamy" so to speak. You had your wife, but then you were free to do whatever your like beyond that as long as you didn't break your duty to the family, yes? Interesting, most of the patriarchs in the Bible were polygamous, it was a famous rabbi's teachings (forget which one) that mandated monogamy as the way. For instance, here's Wikipedia on Abraham: "Jews, Christians, and Muslims consider him father of the people of Israel. For Jews and Christians this is through his son Isaac,[2] by his wife Sarah; for Muslims, he is a prophet of Islam and the ancestor of Muhammad through his other son Ishmael, born to him by Sarah's handmaiden, Hagar." King Solomon was known for his many wives. I think hard monogamy - no prostitution, no bisexuality, no mistresses, concubines, or sexual relations with slaves - was largely established as the norm by Christianity. I know the Romans and Greeks definitely had other lovers and orgies and things like that, whereas once the Roman Catholic Church was established by Constantine this sort of thing was outlawed pretty quickly.
- joshuacc 16y ago
  Just a minor point: Constantine didn't "establish" the Catholic Church in the sense of making it the official religion. Rather, he issued a decree which made it legal to practice Christianity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Milan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Milan
  - lionhearted 16y ago
    This is correct, my mistake. Constantine de-criminalized Christianity, Theodosius made it the official religion of Rome at the Council of Nicea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_I#Nicene_Christianity_becomes_the_state_religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_I#Nicene_Christianit...
tkahn6 16y ago
Polygamy was part of Jewish dogma at one point but the Rabbis came up with an interpretation that forbade it. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/558598/jewish/Does-Jewish-law-forbid-polygamy.htm http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/558598/jewish/...