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You’ve got the causality pretty far out of whack on Qualcomm -> Apple, it seems to me. Apple has been trying to escape from Qualcomm’s non-FRAND licensing term

You’ve got the causality pretty far out of whack on Qualcomm -> Apple, it seems to me. Apple has been trying to escape from Qualcomm’s non-FRAND licensing terms for a long time, so pointing to a deal Apple didn’t want and saying that was Apple’s doing seems pretty far fetched.

jimnotgym 9y ago
It's difficult to say, Apple did benefit from billions of dollars in rebates. However it is also true that years latter Apple did launch legal action to get out of the deal. Perhaps it benefited in the beginning, but by 2016 felt it had enough market clout to get a better deal with Intel? > You’ve got the causality pretty far out of whack on Qualcomm -> Apple, it seems to me. I did say that the regulator found it was Qualcomm that were legally at fault. I don't think I was that far out of whack? Apple did however sign up to and benefit from the deal. The wronged parties were other chip manufacturers. I still think that leaves a moral question hanging over Apple
- mercutio2 9y ago
  I interpreted your “which was the supplier’s fault, of course” as sarcasm, from using the same phrase for Ireland. Poe’s law strikes! If in fact you weren’t being sarcastic, then I apologize. It’s true that Apple benefitted cost-wise, but note that this deal was generally available (in direction, if not magnitude) to most of Qualcomm’s customers, so I was more making the point that Apple wasn’t particularly special in taking the best deal on offer; they’re more unusual in fighting against Qualcomm.
  - jimnotgym 9y ago
    No I apologise, I think I was being at least half sarcastic. I fully recognize that Apple didn't legally do anything wrong by taking Qualcomm up on a deal which was clearly in breach of competition rules for Qualcomm to offer. However it could only be market abuse due to Apple's size and dominance in the phone/tablet field, and it is also true to say that Apple would have known that the deal they were being offered was unlawful. If they had offered this deal to my kickstarter single board computer project it would have been insignificant. Apple do not have clean hands in this. >they’re more unusual in fighting against Qualcomm. Yes, but didn't this begin in an argument over the size of the rebate they were due? I may be wrong in supposing it was a primary factor. Either way this is after they benefited for some years. I feel like we are agreeing, but emphasizing different areas?
    - systoll 9y ago
      There are a lot of cases regarding Qualcomm's licensing scheme, but the 'fighting qualcomm' came first. In 2015, the Korean FTC launched an antitrust suit against Qualcomm & Apple testified in it. Qualcomm said that Apple mislead & withheld information from the KFTC. They've also stated that this breeches the terms of their licensing agreement, and Qualcomm hasn't given Apple any rebates since. Apple disagrees, and in January 2016, they sued Qualcomm over it. Put simply, their argument was that they were owed all the withheld rebates, because they hadn't broken Qualcomm's terms. The anti-trust implications of the license were mentioned, but weren't really the point. The broader anti-trust suit in the US was brought by the FTC just a couple of days prior, so a lot of news blended the two together. Apple, provided information in the FTC's case, and Qualcomm has sued Apple over that too.

jimnotgym 9y ago

It's difficult to say, Apple did benefit from billions of dollars in rebates. However it is also true that years latter Apple did launch legal action to get out of the deal. Perhaps it benefited in the beginning, but by 2016 felt it had enough market clout to get a better deal with Intel? > You’ve got the causality pretty far out of whack on Qualcomm -> Apple, it seems to me. I did say that the regulator found it was Qualcomm that were legally at fault. I don't think I was that far out of whack? Apple did however sign up to and benefit from the deal. The wronged parties were other chip manufacturers. I still think that leaves a moral question hanging over Apple

mercutio2 9y ago
I interpreted your “which was the supplier’s fault, of course” as sarcasm, from using the same phrase for Ireland. Poe’s law strikes! If in fact you weren’t being sarcastic, then I apologize. It’s true that Apple benefitted cost-wise, but note that this deal was generally available (in direction, if not magnitude) to most of Qualcomm’s customers, so I was more making the point that Apple wasn’t particularly special in taking the best deal on offer; they’re more unusual in fighting against Qualcomm.
- jimnotgym 9y ago
  No I apologise, I think I was being at least half sarcastic. I fully recognize that Apple didn't legally do anything wrong by taking Qualcomm up on a deal which was clearly in breach of competition rules for Qualcomm to offer. However it could only be market abuse due to Apple's size and dominance in the phone/tablet field, and it is also true to say that Apple would have known that the deal they were being offered was unlawful. If they had offered this deal to my kickstarter single board computer project it would have been insignificant. Apple do not have clean hands in this. >they’re more unusual in fighting against Qualcomm. Yes, but didn't this begin in an argument over the size of the rebate they were due? I may be wrong in supposing it was a primary factor. Either way this is after they benefited for some years. I feel like we are agreeing, but emphasizing different areas?
  - systoll 9y ago
    There are a lot of cases regarding Qualcomm's licensing scheme, but the 'fighting qualcomm' came first. In 2015, the Korean FTC launched an antitrust suit against Qualcomm & Apple testified in it. Qualcomm said that Apple mislead & withheld information from the KFTC. They've also stated that this breeches the terms of their licensing agreement, and Qualcomm hasn't given Apple any rebates since. Apple disagrees, and in January 2016, they sued Qualcomm over it. Put simply, their argument was that they were owed all the withheld rebates, because they hadn't broken Qualcomm's terms. The anti-trust implications of the license were mentioned, but weren't really the point. The broader anti-trust suit in the US was brought by the FTC just a couple of days prior, so a lot of news blended the two together. Apple, provided information in the FTC's case, and Qualcomm has sued Apple over that too.