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Apple's implementation of sandboxing actually makes computer users less secure. All the good software is distributed away from the App Store, because sandboxed

Apple's implementation of sandboxing actually makes computer users less secure. All the good software is distributed away from the App Store, because sandboxed apps are far too limited (especially regarding the filesystem). So users have been trained to not use the App Store, where apps have to go through an approval process, and instead to install software from the wild west of random websites. The fact is that Macs are not phones, the iMac Pro costs six thousand dollars, and expecting users to use the crippled selection of software from the App Store is unworkable. Nobody pays six thousand dollars to play candy crush.

ahakki 9y ago
> Nobody pays six thousand dollars to play candy crush. You would be surprised.
fny 9y ago
The App Store wasn't made for the 1000 people with iMac Pros. It's made for millions of average Joes who just want to use their computer without having to worry about ransomware. You are definitely not in that crowd, but most Mac users definitely are. Frankly, until the App Store came out, they were all terrified of installing anything on their computer without some well known brand attached to it (e.g. Microsoft, Google, Adobe). The App Store has been a great way for Apple to turn a demographic who was traditionally scared of installing apps into a new market. > So users have been trained to not use the App Store Again, you and I have been trained. Most users crap their pants when they see anything happed contrary to the "blessed path."
- g09980 9y ago
  Mac App Store is a fascinating topic! It seems to be a product nearly abandoned by Apple (not much improvement in years since the first release, unless you count sandboxing as one.) User experience is poor (takes seconds to load pages, also the HTML-based buttons need to be clicked multiple times and/or downloads get stuck). Abandonware/copies of copies of copies of "free PDF Reader"-type software from developers who re-publish 300+ apps of questionable quality abound.
  - namelost 9y ago
    Yes the App Store app is so broken and abandoned that it seems far more sketchy than downloading software from a website, which is quite an achievement!
    - blub 9y ago
      You're being ridiculous. The AppStore is one of the safest ways available to install software.
      - masukomi 9y ago
        what value is "safe" if your choices are all extremely limited in what they can do? And if you think you can't get malware past apple screening you're not thinking creatively enough.
ntaoe09unteont 9y ago
> Apple's implementation of sandboxing actually makes computer users less secure. All the good software is distributed away from the App Store, because sandboxed apps are far too limited (especially regarding the filesystem). Nonsense. The vast majority of users don't need software that does wacky stuff with the file system. They need software that opens documents they made, which all software in the app store can do. I'm a pro (the kind that currently owns the Mac Pro and will likely own the next one or the iMac Pro next), and I basically avoid all software that's not from the App Store. Your ranting sounds delusional to me.
- crankylinuxuser 9y ago
  > Nonsense. The vast majority of users don't need software that does wacky stuff with the file system. Uhhhh, what? You're justifying a company you PAID thousands of dollars to remain in control of your device? We're fighting this sort of inane thoughts where these ideas are already executed. Look up John Deere, and the Freedom to Fix. > They need software that opens documents they made, which all software in the app store can do. I'm a pro (the kind that currently owns the Mac Pro and will likely own the next one or the iMac Pro next), and I basically avoid all software that's not from the App Store. Ok. You can choose to or not to. > Your ranting sounds delusional to me. You're calling someone else delusional for calling bullshit on Apple's faux-security? And you're calling for the app-ification of all computers? The person calling bullshit on Apple-faux-security isn't the delusional one here.
  - sbuk 9y ago
    “You're justifying a company you PAID thousands of dollars to remain in control of your device?“ This is the bit that you FOSS diehards don’t get. Nobody really cares. What they want is something that they can switch on and go to Facebook or edit their documents on. They don’t want to tinker with kernel exstentions or run servers. For most, computing appliances are far more convenient.
    - tripzilch 9y ago
      Nobody really cares? You know, we're on this forum called hackernews? You might want to pack up that opinion and take it to some place called "consumernews" or something (they might call it "productnews" these days). That is where nobody really cares. While most of the "FOSS diehards" get it just fine. People want convenience. It's not that hard to understand and you're making yourself look like a fool if that's your claim. Doesn't mean convenience is the right way forward, even if people want it or don't care. Since when is "people don't care" a viable argument for anything, the people that don't care, don't understand this.
alwillis 9y ago
The fact is that Macs are not phones, the iMac Pro costs six thousand dollars, and expecting users to use the crippled selection of software from the App Store is unworkable. Keep in mind that professional users that buy the iMac Pro use pro apps, like AutoCAD, Final Cut, Logic, ProTools, Creative Suite and the like; these apps are mission-critical to their workflows and are not crippled.
blub 9y ago
It works fine for me, I don't have to hunt for updates to all sorts of apps, pay only one company and have some extra security from the sandbox. Lots of awesome apps are available on the store. I don't want to allow any app free access to the file system. And anyway, developers have found creative solutions to this problem also. E.g: by asking the user to open the target location from the app they can circumvent the protection. The AppStore has its negative sides too: apps can disappear and be replaced by v2, forcing one to pay again and again.
- apple4ever 9y ago
  The AppStore is terrible because its doesn't help developers, so they avoid it. I'd LOVE to offer my app on the AppStore, but its too expensive and too restrictive. A lot more awesome apps are available outside the AppStore.

ahakki 9y ago

> Nobody pays six thousand dollars to play candy crush. You would be surprised.

fny 9y ago

The App Store wasn't made for the 1000 people with iMac Pros. It's made for millions of average Joes who just want to use their computer without having to worry about ransomware. You are definitely not in that crowd, but most Mac users definitely are. Frankly, until the App Store came out, they were all terrified of installing anything on their computer without some well known brand attached to it (e.g. Microsoft, Google, Adobe). The App Store has been a great way for Apple to turn a demographic who was traditionally scared of installing apps into a new market. > So users have been trained to not use the App Store Again, you and I have been trained. Most users crap their pants when they see anything happed contrary to the "blessed path."

g09980 9y ago
Mac App Store is a fascinating topic! It seems to be a product nearly abandoned by Apple (not much improvement in years since the first release, unless you count sandboxing as one.) User experience is poor (takes seconds to load pages, also the HTML-based buttons need to be clicked multiple times and/or downloads get stuck). Abandonware/copies of copies of copies of "free PDF Reader"-type software from developers who re-publish 300+ apps of questionable quality abound.
- namelost 9y ago
  Yes the App Store app is so broken and abandoned that it seems far more sketchy than downloading software from a website, which is quite an achievement!
  - blub 9y ago
    You're being ridiculous. The AppStore is one of the safest ways available to install software.
    - masukomi 9y ago
      what value is "safe" if your choices are all extremely limited in what they can do? And if you think you can't get malware past apple screening you're not thinking creatively enough.

ntaoe09unteont 9y ago

> Apple's implementation of sandboxing actually makes computer users less secure. All the good software is distributed away from the App Store, because sandboxed apps are far too limited (especially regarding the filesystem). Nonsense. The vast majority of users don't need software that does wacky stuff with the file system. They need software that opens documents they made, which all software in the app store can do. I'm a pro (the kind that currently owns the Mac Pro and will likely own the next one or the iMac Pro next), and I basically avoid all software that's not from the App Store. Your ranting sounds delusional to me.

crankylinuxuser 9y ago
> Nonsense. The vast majority of users don't need software that does wacky stuff with the file system. Uhhhh, what? You're justifying a company you PAID thousands of dollars to remain in control of your device? We're fighting this sort of inane thoughts where these ideas are already executed. Look up John Deere, and the Freedom to Fix. > They need software that opens documents they made, which all software in the app store can do. I'm a pro (the kind that currently owns the Mac Pro and will likely own the next one or the iMac Pro next), and I basically avoid all software that's not from the App Store. Ok. You can choose to or not to. > Your ranting sounds delusional to me. You're calling someone else delusional for calling bullshit on Apple's faux-security? And you're calling for the app-ification of all computers? The person calling bullshit on Apple-faux-security isn't the delusional one here.
- sbuk 9y ago
  “You're justifying a company you PAID thousands of dollars to remain in control of your device?“ This is the bit that you FOSS diehards don’t get. Nobody really cares. What they want is something that they can switch on and go to Facebook or edit their documents on. They don’t want to tinker with kernel exstentions or run servers. For most, computing appliances are far more convenient.
  - tripzilch 9y ago
    Nobody really cares? You know, we're on this forum called hackernews? You might want to pack up that opinion and take it to some place called "consumernews" or something (they might call it "productnews" these days). That is where nobody really cares. While most of the "FOSS diehards" get it just fine. People want convenience. It's not that hard to understand and you're making yourself look like a fool if that's your claim. Doesn't mean convenience is the right way forward, even if people want it or don't care. Since when is "people don't care" a viable argument for anything, the people that don't care, don't understand this.

alwillis 9y ago

The fact is that Macs are not phones, the iMac Pro costs six thousand dollars, and expecting users to use the crippled selection of software from the App Store is unworkable. Keep in mind that professional users that buy the iMac Pro use pro apps, like AutoCAD, Final Cut, Logic, ProTools, Creative Suite and the like; these apps are mission-critical to their workflows and are not crippled.

blub 9y ago

It works fine for me, I don't have to hunt for updates to all sorts of apps, pay only one company and have some extra security from the sandbox. Lots of awesome apps are available on the store. I don't want to allow any app free access to the file system. And anyway, developers have found creative solutions to this problem also. E.g: by asking the user to open the target location from the app they can circumvent the protection. The AppStore has its negative sides too: apps can disappear and be replaced by v2, forcing one to pay again and again.

apple4ever 9y ago
The AppStore is terrible because its doesn't help developers, so they avoid it. I'd LOVE to offer my app on the AppStore, but its too expensive and too restrictive. A lot more awesome apps are available outside the AppStore.