7 ms·

I don't get the Vue hype. Sure, Vue seems nice enough, but it is concepteually very similar to React, so nothing new there. The pros of React are a smaller API

by erokar 9y ago

I don't get the Vue hype. Sure, Vue seems nice enough, but it is concepteually very similar to React, so nothing new there. The pros of React are a smaller API and JSX instead of an added templating language (the latter being a contentious issue, I know). EDIT: I realize now Vue does have optional support for JSX and you are not forced to use a templating language.

baxtr 9y ago
No, the pro is that is not supported by one of tech giants with infinite resources for the sole reason “to have larger footprint on the web”, basically to increase their spying capabilities across the web. Instead, vue was built by one guy, and it’s en par if not even better than react/angular.
- ryanianian 9y ago
  Spying? Conspiracy theory?
  - baxtr 9y ago
    You’re right I should have called it “data collection approach to create a strategic advantage”
    - vertex-four 9y ago
      So exactly how does React collect data on your users?
- efdee 9y ago
  This is ridiculous. Please back up your claim that either Angular or React include literally any kind of spying capability whatsoever.
  - dictum 9y ago
    You're not wrong, but I think the parent commenter touched a good point, just not in the most masterful way: using open source software from Facebook or Google increases their soft power over the web and Open Source in general. In the same way Google pretty much decides web standards these days (unless most other implementors refuse to back a proposed standard; even then, Chrome can keep supporting something), Facebook could end up deciding standards. The former with the browser, the latter with code that runs in the browser. Though Vue has more contributors now, that a single person could start and grow an open source project, with his own goals an opinions, shaping a community around certain principles, is something that appeals to me on philosophical and political grounds. By the way, until recently, the recommended way to get started with React (unless you were using a bundler, hosting it yourself or using another CDN) was to load it from fb.me, a Facebook-owned domain.
  - baxtr 9y ago
    Ok, I realized, that I’ve used the wrong words. I’m sorry for that. What I meant: I believe big corporations like FB and Google do open source for a reason. A strategic reason. There are two that come to mind: (a) being able to push standards (like MS tried with IE). (b) usually these libraries are loaded from the respective companies’. It is possible that the loading data is then used to augment other data they have. In the end, both companies’ business models is based on data, only. Compare that with vue.
Tade0 9y ago
Vue currently also features JSX.
- jxub 9y ago
  Is this documented? I couldn't find examples as everybody seems to use templates.
  - thsowers 9y ago
    Yes [0] 0: https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/render-function.html#JSX https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/render-function.html#JSX
- Can_Not 9y ago
  And also supports jade/pug syntax.
ohceecho 9y ago
The templating language is entirely optional. People use it because they prefer it. You can even use JSX if you want.
agumonkey 9y ago
it's cultural/human; debian/fedora/archlinux are all nothing but linux distro.. yet I cant fathom the first two, while arch mindset and wiki suit me in ways that never fails. I think vue is just like that. It's readable, efficient, does 90% of react. For some people it's the right fit.
baby 9y ago
> The pros of React are a smaller API and JSX instead of an added templating language This is not a pro for me, I much prefer using the templates of Vue.js than JSX.
GhostVII 9y ago
I find vue much simpler to start out with and build off of, since it is almost all just regular html and JavaScript, as opposed to React which uses jsx and has lots of painful setup of tools like redux and react router. Vue.js has a really good webpack starter kit that will give you a working site that you can expand really easily so that makes setup super simple.
- 2trill2spill 9y ago
  Nothing about react requires you to use redux. Actually most small projects would benefit by not using redux.
- joshribakoff 9y ago
  Note that there is also create react app which is a good starter kit for react.
- Bizarro 9y ago
  Just don't use redux. Maybe one day there will be a decent, ergonomic framework on top of the flux architecture, but redux ain't it. Try mobx state tree for all the benefits that redux has without the pain. Vuej seems nice enough (especially for migrating server side tech apps), but I'm still not digging the templating engine. I've seen the way you can use JSX in Vuej, and I don't like it.
collyw 9y ago
React has been around for a few years now. Far too long in the world of JS. I am surprised people are still talking about Vue.
spion 9y ago
People hate having a build step and will go to great lengths to get rid of it. To add on top of that, the situation with writing modular code in JavaScript/HTML/CSS is such a total disaster - even with a build step. Of course, the problem is not quite solved by not having a build step. It just means that things will bite you later, once you have enough components that just loading them one by one wont do. (at least not yet - we need smart HTTP/2 servers for that). Then you add a simple build step in the form of bundling. This is a happy medium and most apps will survive very well with this sort of setup (a single bundle). But another point might come where the single bundle is too large to be served in one piece. At that point you need code splitting. And now if you're using one of the custom framework module systems (which work by defining global named "injectables"), you might regret it, since code splitting bundlers rarely understand the dependencies between them. Not sure what the situation in Vue land is, but if you're using the asset pipeline you'll likely have to manage two sets of dependencies per file (your requires and your vue components) and then last time I checked, Sprokets does not support code splitting. This entire situation is caused by two major problems with the web platform: 1. The ES6 module system is not yet available in browsers, and servers and browsers are not taking advantage of HTTP/2 push to ensure efficient module loading. You can create a service worker to support this browser-side (https://mariusgundersen.net/module-pusher/ https://mariusgundersen.net/module-pusher/), but then there is Safari - and dammit, this stuff should be built in and commonplace everywhere! 2. You can't use the ES6 module system to modularise the rest of the assets like CSS and HTML. An ES6 module can't request for a CSS file, templates or other assets to get loaded via push. (Well actually it can via loader hooks I suppose, but there is the CSS modularity problem). There is another way to do this called HTML imports (which combined together with Shadow DOM finally gives CSS some modularity), but its a whole different thing form ES6 modules and its unclear how to make those work together. So to use that you kinda have to throw ES6 modules with the bathwater too. 3. IE11. Someone on those standards bodies should get their act together and fix this dire situation. Until then, I'm excited about Parcel's way of handling this, with its async imports support making code splitting quite transparent. In general the ES6 module system has the best bundler support thus far, so JSX and css-in-JS (or at least css-modules) make sense to me for the foreseeable future. p.s. One other reason why this isn't fixed is probably because the big companies that have the most say in standards bodies and browsers don't care. Preliminary research showed (can't find the link) that HTTP/2 push would have about 5-10% overhead over current optimal bundling and code splitting solutions, and these companies have their own developed infrastructure to optimise every last bit of performance - they can't afford 1% drop, let alone 5%. So there is no incentive to help the rest of the web.
wishinghand 9y ago
Vue has a more closely integrated router that doesn't suffer from version mismatches like React-Router does. The CSS styling for a component is handled much more cleanly than React does. The lifecycle methods are named more sensibly. You can add as little or as much Vue as you like, very easily, using no build system or going as far as to only use the build system.

by erokar 9y ago

baxtr 9y ago

No, the pro is that is not supported by one of tech giants with infinite resources for the sole reason “to have larger footprint on the web”, basically to increase their spying capabilities across the web. Instead, vue was built by one guy, and it’s en par if not even better than react/angular.

ryanianian 9y ago
Spying? Conspiracy theory?
- baxtr 9y ago
  You’re right I should have called it “data collection approach to create a strategic advantage”
  - vertex-four 9y ago
    So exactly how does React collect data on your users?
efdee 9y ago
This is ridiculous. Please back up your claim that either Angular or React include literally any kind of spying capability whatsoever.
- dictum 9y ago
  You're not wrong, but I think the parent commenter touched a good point, just not in the most masterful way: using open source software from Facebook or Google increases their soft power over the web and Open Source in general. In the same way Google pretty much decides web standards these days (unless most other implementors refuse to back a proposed standard; even then, Chrome can keep supporting something), Facebook could end up deciding standards. The former with the browser, the latter with code that runs in the browser. Though Vue has more contributors now, that a single person could start and grow an open source project, with his own goals an opinions, shaping a community around certain principles, is something that appeals to me on philosophical and political grounds. By the way, until recently, the recommended way to get started with React (unless you were using a bundler, hosting it yourself or using another CDN) was to load it from fb.me, a Facebook-owned domain.
- baxtr 9y ago
  Ok, I realized, that I’ve used the wrong words. I’m sorry for that. What I meant: I believe big corporations like FB and Google do open source for a reason. A strategic reason. There are two that come to mind: (a) being able to push standards (like MS tried with IE). (b) usually these libraries are loaded from the respective companies’. It is possible that the loading data is then used to augment other data they have. In the end, both companies’ business models is based on data, only. Compare that with vue.

Tade0 9y ago

Vue currently also features JSX.

jxub 9y ago
Is this documented? I couldn't find examples as everybody seems to use templates.
- thsowers 9y ago
  Yes [0] 0: https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/render-function.html#JSX https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/render-function.html#JSX
Can_Not 9y ago
And also supports jade/pug syntax.

ohceecho 9y ago

The templating language is entirely optional. People use it because they prefer it. You can even use JSX if you want.

agumonkey 9y ago

it's cultural/human; debian/fedora/archlinux are all nothing but linux distro.. yet I cant fathom the first two, while arch mindset and wiki suit me in ways that never fails. I think vue is just like that. It's readable, efficient, does 90% of react. For some people it's the right fit.

baby 9y ago

> The pros of React are a smaller API and JSX instead of an added templating language This is not a pro for me, I much prefer using the templates of Vue.js than JSX.

GhostVII 9y ago

I find vue much simpler to start out with and build off of, since it is almost all just regular html and JavaScript, as opposed to React which uses jsx and has lots of painful setup of tools like redux and react router. Vue.js has a really good webpack starter kit that will give you a working site that you can expand really easily so that makes setup super simple.

2trill2spill 9y ago
Nothing about react requires you to use redux. Actually most small projects would benefit by not using redux.
joshribakoff 9y ago
Note that there is also create react app which is a good starter kit for react.
Bizarro 9y ago
Just don't use redux. Maybe one day there will be a decent, ergonomic framework on top of the flux architecture, but redux ain't it. Try mobx state tree for all the benefits that redux has without the pain. Vuej seems nice enough (especially for migrating server side tech apps), but I'm still not digging the templating engine. I've seen the way you can use JSX in Vuej, and I don't like it.

collyw 9y ago

React has been around for a few years now. Far too long in the world of JS. I am surprised people are still talking about Vue.

spion 9y ago

People hate having a build step and will go to great lengths to get rid of it. To add on top of that, the situation with writing modular code in JavaScript/HTML/CSS is such a total disaster - even with a build step. Of course, the problem is not quite solved by not having a build step. It just means that things will bite you later, once you have enough components that just loading them one by one wont do. (at least not yet - we need smart HTTP/2 servers for that). Then you add a simple build step in the form of bundling. This is a happy medium and most apps will survive very well with this sort of setup (a single bundle). But another point might come where the single bundle is too large to be served in one piece. At that point you need code splitting. And now if you're using one of the custom framework module systems (which work by defining global named "injectables"), you might regret it, since code splitting bundlers rarely understand the dependencies between them. Not sure what the situation in Vue land is, but if you're using the asset pipeline you'll likely have to manage two sets of dependencies per file (your requires and your vue components) and then last time I checked, Sprokets does not support code splitting. This entire situation is caused by two major problems with the web platform: 1. The ES6 module system is not yet available in browsers, and servers and browsers are not taking advantage of HTTP/2 push to ensure efficient module loading. You can create a service worker to support this browser-side (https://mariusgundersen.net/module-pusher/ https://mariusgundersen.net/module-pusher/), but then there is Safari - and dammit, this stuff should be built in and commonplace everywhere! 2. You can't use the ES6 module system to modularise the rest of the assets like CSS and HTML. An ES6 module can't request for a CSS file, templates or other assets to get loaded via push. (Well actually it can via loader hooks I suppose, but there is the CSS modularity problem). There is another way to do this called HTML imports (which combined together with Shadow DOM finally gives CSS some modularity), but its a whole different thing form ES6 modules and its unclear how to make those work together. So to use that you kinda have to throw ES6 modules with the bathwater too. 3. IE11. Someone on those standards bodies should get their act together and fix this dire situation. Until then, I'm excited about Parcel's way of handling this, with its async imports support making code splitting quite transparent. In general the ES6 module system has the best bundler support thus far, so JSX and css-in-JS (or at least css-modules) make sense to me for the foreseeable future. p.s. One other reason why this isn't fixed is probably because the big companies that have the most say in standards bodies and browsers don't care. Preliminary research showed (can't find the link) that HTTP/2 push would have about 5-10% overhead over current optimal bundling and code splitting solutions, and these companies have their own developed infrastructure to optimise every last bit of performance - they can't afford 1% drop, let alone 5%. So there is no incentive to help the rest of the web.

wishinghand 9y ago

Vue has a more closely integrated router that doesn't suffer from version mismatches like React-Router does. The CSS styling for a component is handled much more cleanly than React does. The lifecycle methods are named more sensibly. You can add as little or as much Vue as you like, very easily, using no build system or going as far as to only use the build system.