4 ms·

While I understand how it applies in the shown cases I'm still puzzled about the quadrant naming. Are people on the top right aalways a Dupe? Is there any contr

by ndr 9y ago

While I understand how it applies in the shown cases I'm still puzzled about the quadrant naming. Are people on the top right aalways a Dupe? Is there any contrarian that would push for more policy on something? How does this apply to something like "Should we put dangerous criminals in jail?"

phkahler 9y ago
Calling people in the top right a Dupe seems risky. It suggests they're easily tricked into supporting the media agenda - which is probably how the media views them. The risk in naming them so is that one could respond "so you're saying they're too feeble-minded to think for themselves" and thus place the whole four-quadrant model into the "evil" bin. We must be careful about this and make them feel like victims, like they've been played, because they have. To your second question, it does not apply to question like "should we put dangerous criminals in jail?" It applies to statements like "we should put dangerous criminals in jail". The purpose is to promote an agenda, not to have a reasoned debate.
jpttsn 9y ago
The model suggests, if I read it correctly, that media would portray Contrarians (who dislike crime but don’t think jail is the solution) as Troglodytes (who oppose jail because they favor crime.) The “Dupe” label would then apply to those who accept the jail policy because they dislike crime. Perhaps the model tries to disparage people who make this leap, without themselves considering if the policy is a good way to combat crime. I guess I see your point; there might be people who dislike crime and have done their homework on the policy, and the model unfairly labels them as dupes. Perhaps the scope of the model is implicitly limited to reason about those who blindly accept the media’s points. The article seems to focus elsewhere: on the case where media pushes the top left quadrant toward the diagonal. Equipped with Hanlon’s razor, one may alternatively posit a dimensionality reduction which, albeit lossy, improves the performance of media.
- ndr 9y ago
  > I guess I see your point; there might be people who dislike crime and have done their homework on the policy, and the model unfairly labels them as dupes. That's exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for putting it down so clearly.
darkerside 9y ago
Yeah... This article seems just as pandering and guilty of conflating ideas and moral value as the media personalities it's trying to predict.

by ndr 9y ago

phkahler 9y ago

Calling people in the top right a Dupe seems risky. It suggests they're easily tricked into supporting the media agenda - which is probably how the media views them. The risk in naming them so is that one could respond "so you're saying they're too feeble-minded to think for themselves" and thus place the whole four-quadrant model into the "evil" bin. We must be careful about this and make them feel like victims, like they've been played, because they have. To your second question, it does not apply to question like "should we put dangerous criminals in jail?" It applies to statements like "we should put dangerous criminals in jail". The purpose is to promote an agenda, not to have a reasoned debate.

jpttsn 9y ago

The model suggests, if I read it correctly, that media would portray Contrarians (who dislike crime but don’t think jail is the solution) as Troglodytes (who oppose jail because they favor crime.) The “Dupe” label would then apply to those who accept the jail policy because they dislike crime. Perhaps the model tries to disparage people who make this leap, without themselves considering if the policy is a good way to combat crime. I guess I see your point; there might be people who dislike crime and have done their homework on the policy, and the model unfairly labels them as dupes. Perhaps the scope of the model is implicitly limited to reason about those who blindly accept the media’s points. The article seems to focus elsewhere: on the case where media pushes the top left quadrant toward the diagonal. Equipped with Hanlon’s razor, one may alternatively posit a dimensionality reduction which, albeit lossy, improves the performance of media.

ndr 9y ago
> I guess I see your point; there might be people who dislike crime and have done their homework on the policy, and the model unfairly labels them as dupes. That's exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for putting it down so clearly.

darkerside 9y ago

Yeah... This article seems just as pandering and guilty of conflating ideas and moral value as the media personalities it's trying to predict.