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The case where CNIL told my company to do remove information we had collected on our site. We are not based in the EU nor have any assets they can exert any inf

The case where CNIL told my company to do remove information we had collected on our site. We are not based in the EU nor have any assets they can exert any influence over in the EU. We promptly ignored the request. But did have some private words we exchanged amongst ourselves at the futility of such request.

the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
It doesn’t matter if you are based in the EU or not. You are already required to register for VAT as a non EU company and that’s one of the many ways in. Privacy Shield is another.
- cinquemb 9y ago
  >nor have any assets they can exert any influence over in the EU.
  - the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
    You are still legally required. Pretending that it’s okay to ignore your legal obligations because you think they have no leverage does not seem like a sensible thing to do. Neither morally nor legally unless you are willing to write off the EU market.
    - cinquemb 9y ago
      As a non EU person or company with no legal assets in the EU, even if you or any EU institution says this, there are no repercussions from us continuing to engage in the activities (collecting data people put willing into the open) because there is no ability for the EU to enforce these laws upon us, short of arresting us outside of EU's borders. In order to stop us technically, the EU must pass laws that disallow their citizens to give information to platforms of various forms that could be used in various ways to amass data upon them as well as against allowing their citizens from accessing such information on sites like ours that mine crypto based on the time they spend on the site engaging with such information. >are willing to write off the EU market. We don't discriminate against our site visitors; we want to collect, correlate, cross-reference, and process it all and put it into the public to be used however people everywhere see fit, just like governments do today!
      - the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
        There are years worth of backtaxes for failure to pay VAT. If you think you can skirt it for forever that might work for you. Very few companies are like that though and even small companies I know did not fare well with this approach. It’s your responsibilty as a business not to accept customers from countries you cannot do business with. //edit: > We don't discriminate against our site visitors; we want to collect, correlate, cross-reference, and process it all and put it into the public to be used however people everywhere see fit, just like governments do today! Which is not permitted under GDPR ever.
        cinquemb 9y ago
        >…Very few companies are like that though We understand that, yet it didn't stop CNIL from going after us. >Which is not permitted under GDPR ever. Yeah, we don't care, nor do the people who've engaged with our site, it is toothless as far as we are concerned. People and the eurocrats can disagree with us as much as they want, but there isn't anything they can do to change it.
        the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
        European end users care and so do businesses doing business with them. Someone will eventually drag the topic to your door.
        cinquemb 9y ago
        >Someone will eventually drag the topic to your door. This has already happened, I expect it will continue to happen as along as people engage in behaviors contrary to their signaled beliefs. >European end users care and so do businesses doing business with them. If Europeans visiting our site is now considered doing business with them, then this is an example of European user behaviors acting contrary to their signaled beliefs. "So right away, let us cast aside the technological protocols, that are usually referred to as “the internet”, that of which was built upon that make accessing or publishing information public between two or more machines… Because talking about such things would require most internet users to cast aside social constructs they willingly suspend on a daily basis upon engaging with such technology/services (without any care to understand for oneself, one might add) and then demand collectively in retrospect to have their cries pacified while continuing to use such services (of which, most for free). Yup, let us look past all that and believe (because that’s all we can do for ourselves) that institutions/organizations/companies/governments, that all consist of our fellow human beings in all of our qualities and flaws, can provide for the individual that which he chooses not to do for himself, to a satisfactory level in which his desires are forever coddled and placated." "The Banality of Privacy As A Service" [0] [0] http://pictobar.tumblr.com/post/63785124046/the-banality-of-privacy-as-a-service http://pictobar.tumblr.com/post/63785124046/the-banality-of-...
- Silhouette 9y ago
  You are already required to register for VAT as a non EU company and that’s one of the many ways in. By that logic, any EU company is also subject to the tax laws of every other jurisdiction in the world, whether or not it has any presence there. No doubt the governments of all the other countries seeking to impose sales taxes and the like would be in favour of that. Anyone hoping to start a small business selling online would probably take a different view, though, so if you want people to be able to start new businesses, your national governments in the EU had better be on their side on this one.

the_mitsuhiko 9y ago

It doesn’t matter if you are based in the EU or not. You are already required to register for VAT as a non EU company and that’s one of the many ways in. Privacy Shield is another.

cinquemb 9y ago
>nor have any assets they can exert any influence over in the EU.
- the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
  You are still legally required. Pretending that it’s okay to ignore your legal obligations because you think they have no leverage does not seem like a sensible thing to do. Neither morally nor legally unless you are willing to write off the EU market.
  - cinquemb 9y ago
    As a non EU person or company with no legal assets in the EU, even if you or any EU institution says this, there are no repercussions from us continuing to engage in the activities (collecting data people put willing into the open) because there is no ability for the EU to enforce these laws upon us, short of arresting us outside of EU's borders. In order to stop us technically, the EU must pass laws that disallow their citizens to give information to platforms of various forms that could be used in various ways to amass data upon them as well as against allowing their citizens from accessing such information on sites like ours that mine crypto based on the time they spend on the site engaging with such information. >are willing to write off the EU market. We don't discriminate against our site visitors; we want to collect, correlate, cross-reference, and process it all and put it into the public to be used however people everywhere see fit, just like governments do today!
    - the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
      There are years worth of backtaxes for failure to pay VAT. If you think you can skirt it for forever that might work for you. Very few companies are like that though and even small companies I know did not fare well with this approach. It’s your responsibilty as a business not to accept customers from countries you cannot do business with. //edit: > We don't discriminate against our site visitors; we want to collect, correlate, cross-reference, and process it all and put it into the public to be used however people everywhere see fit, just like governments do today! Which is not permitted under GDPR ever.
      - cinquemb 9y ago
        >…Very few companies are like that though We understand that, yet it didn't stop CNIL from going after us. >Which is not permitted under GDPR ever. Yeah, we don't care, nor do the people who've engaged with our site, it is toothless as far as we are concerned. People and the eurocrats can disagree with us as much as they want, but there isn't anything they can do to change it.
        the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
        European end users care and so do businesses doing business with them. Someone will eventually drag the topic to your door.
        cinquemb 9y ago
        >Someone will eventually drag the topic to your door. This has already happened, I expect it will continue to happen as along as people engage in behaviors contrary to their signaled beliefs. >European end users care and so do businesses doing business with them. If Europeans visiting our site is now considered doing business with them, then this is an example of European user behaviors acting contrary to their signaled beliefs. "So right away, let us cast aside the technological protocols, that are usually referred to as “the internet”, that of which was built upon that make accessing or publishing information public between two or more machines… Because talking about such things would require most internet users to cast aside social constructs they willingly suspend on a daily basis upon engaging with such technology/services (without any care to understand for oneself, one might add) and then demand collectively in retrospect to have their cries pacified while continuing to use such services (of which, most for free). Yup, let us look past all that and believe (because that’s all we can do for ourselves) that institutions/organizations/companies/governments, that all consist of our fellow human beings in all of our qualities and flaws, can provide for the individual that which he chooses not to do for himself, to a satisfactory level in which his desires are forever coddled and placated." "The Banality of Privacy As A Service" [0] [0] http://pictobar.tumblr.com/post/63785124046/the-banality-of-privacy-as-a-service http://pictobar.tumblr.com/post/63785124046/the-banality-of-...
Silhouette 9y ago
You are already required to register for VAT as a non EU company and that’s one of the many ways in. By that logic, any EU company is also subject to the tax laws of every other jurisdiction in the world, whether or not it has any presence there. No doubt the governments of all the other countries seeking to impose sales taxes and the like would be in favour of that. Anyone hoping to start a small business selling online would probably take a different view, though, so if you want people to be able to start new businesses, your national governments in the EU had better be on their side on this one.