7 ms·

West Virginia voted 70% for Trump in the election (and 70% for Bernie in the primary). Just in case anyone still thinks Trump was elected based on racism, or Ru

West Virginia voted 70% for Trump in the election (and 70% for Bernie in the primary). Just in case anyone still thinks Trump was elected based on racism, or Russia, or whatever the media obsession this week, the truth is that life is a damn mess for a large part of the country that's been forgotten by the coastal elitists

FreakyT 9y ago
And such a result it just goes to show how brainwashed they are. Nothing's more appealing than a scapegoat (liberals, "coastal elites", the EPA, Mexicans), when the biggest problem is yourself.
- devmunchies 9y ago
  brainwashed? more like hopeless and desperate.
  - FreakyT 9y ago
    I'd say both are likely. Those who are hopeless and desperate are much easier targets for propaganda.
    - at-fates-hands 9y ago
      Which both parties paid in the billions to reach. In this heavily divided, partisan atmosphere, no amount of propaganda (Russian or otherwise) is going to make someone living in the rust belt vote for someone like Clinton. Likewise, no amount of propaganda (Russian or otherwise) is going to convince some hipster startup founder in the SF bay area to vote for someone like Trump.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- paulsutter 9y ago
  > Nothing's more appealing than a scapegoat (liberals, "coastal elites", the EPA, Mexicans) Did you catch that they voted 70% for Bernie?
  - jdminhbg 9y ago
    That's just a different scapegoat: bankers, globalism, etc.
  - Buldak 9y ago
    Where does this 70% figure come from? A cursory search I just did turns up 51% for Bernie [1]. At any rate, it's unclear to me what you take this to show. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Democratic_primary,_2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Democratic_prima...
    - paulsutter 9y ago
      I thought it was by 70% by delegate count, but yes it looks like 62%
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
awinder 9y ago
I missed the part of history where white people / middle America / anyone really rallied to treat the drug crises in inner cities. Other than to go as far as labeling African Americans as criminals in the best case, or as genetically inferior and predisposed in the worst case. As for how democrats and the coasts are to blame, well, this is revisionist history. The reps from the coasts were not the ones sent to Washington to bust unions. The republicans sent from middle America were. There’s a movement by middle America that wants to blame others without accepting responsibility. And I think it’s foolish for democrats to engage at that level, because we have to build a coalition that lasts here. We can’t begin that without proper understanding of past mistakes or else we will move 8 years down the road and do the same stupid thing over again. I sympathize greatly with problems faced from middle America. But there’s a lot of blame to be shared and even now middle America wants to denigrate causes important to the coasts, while also begging for the coasts to bail them out. This is unreasonable.
- paulsutter 9y ago
  > democrats ... can’t begin that without proper understanding of past mistakes or else we will move 8 years down the road and do the same stupid thing over again Indeed. So who is the best candidate for 2020? > middle america ... labeling African Americans as criminals in the best case, or as genetically inferior and predisposed in the worst case You might want to check your stereotypes of middle america. Those are really ugly accusations. > how democrats and the coasts are to blame, well, this is revisionist history I didn't suggest anyone is to blame, I just said they've been forgotten
notatoad 9y ago
I will never understand the voter who is frustrated with a lack of support from their government and thinks the party most likely to help them is the one that advocates for dismantling the social safety net.
- Clubber 9y ago
  I believe it's because people don't want handouts, they want an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Not an unreasonable demand. I would say based on US Puritan cultural roots, and how our capitalistic system works, it would be a necessity.
  - southpawflo 9y ago
    what are the definitions for an honest day's work and pay? do you think that the definitions would be the same between a 6th generation american white male and a 1st generation american latino male?
    - southpawflo 9y ago
      even though I'm being downvoted I'm still curious as to what the defs are
      - Clubber 9y ago
        Well it's such a broad question. I tried to answer it a few times, but it ended up being very long winded and only covered a few edge cases. The first one is easy - enough to pay the bills and live a decent life, including the ability to raise a family while having basic needs and some occasional extravagances met. The second one depends on time, location and circumstance and changes from time, location and circumstance depending on which of the millions of people you are comparing. It's more of a macroeconomic / socioeconomic / philosophic question rather than a microeconomic one. The best I can answer is sometimes they would be the same, some times group A would take less than group B, sometimes group B would take less than group A. I would guess given the same location and cost of living, they would be similar.
djtriptych 9y ago
What part of Trump or Bernie isn’t coastal or elite?
- paulsutter 9y ago
  /Relatable/ is a good word for the democrats to consider in candidates for 2020. Trump and Bernie are certainly coastal, but there's nothing elite about them. And I didn't say "elite". I said ELITISTS, which are electoral kryptonite.
  - AdamJacobMuller 9y ago
    Bernie was definitely in a good position for this prior to the 2016 election, but, the revelations of his collusion with and acquiescence to the DNC in the 2016 election cycle poisoned him to many voters, myself included.
    - torstenvl 9y ago
      Yes! Damn those Presidential candidates of a given party! Always in cahoots with the party's national committee!
    - djtriptych 9y ago
      Did you vote for anyone?

FreakyT 9y ago

And such a result it just goes to show how brainwashed they are. Nothing's more appealing than a scapegoat (liberals, "coastal elites", the EPA, Mexicans), when the biggest problem is yourself.

devmunchies 9y ago
brainwashed? more like hopeless and desperate.
- FreakyT 9y ago
  I'd say both are likely. Those who are hopeless and desperate are much easier targets for propaganda.
  - at-fates-hands 9y ago
    Which both parties paid in the billions to reach. In this heavily divided, partisan atmosphere, no amount of propaganda (Russian or otherwise) is going to make someone living in the rust belt vote for someone like Clinton. Likewise, no amount of propaganda (Russian or otherwise) is going to convince some hipster startup founder in the SF bay area to vote for someone like Trump.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
paulsutter 9y ago
> Nothing's more appealing than a scapegoat (liberals, "coastal elites", the EPA, Mexicans) Did you catch that they voted 70% for Bernie?
- jdminhbg 9y ago
  That's just a different scapegoat: bankers, globalism, etc.
- Buldak 9y ago
  Where does this 70% figure come from? A cursory search I just did turns up 51% for Bernie [1]. At any rate, it's unclear to me what you take this to show. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Democratic_primary,_2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_Democratic_prima...
  - paulsutter 9y ago
    I thought it was by 70% by delegate count, but yes it looks like 62%

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

awinder 9y ago

I missed the part of history where white people / middle America / anyone really rallied to treat the drug crises in inner cities. Other than to go as far as labeling African Americans as criminals in the best case, or as genetically inferior and predisposed in the worst case. As for how democrats and the coasts are to blame, well, this is revisionist history. The reps from the coasts were not the ones sent to Washington to bust unions. The republicans sent from middle America were. There’s a movement by middle America that wants to blame others without accepting responsibility. And I think it’s foolish for democrats to engage at that level, because we have to build a coalition that lasts here. We can’t begin that without proper understanding of past mistakes or else we will move 8 years down the road and do the same stupid thing over again. I sympathize greatly with problems faced from middle America. But there’s a lot of blame to be shared and even now middle America wants to denigrate causes important to the coasts, while also begging for the coasts to bail them out. This is unreasonable.

paulsutter 9y ago
> democrats ... can’t begin that without proper understanding of past mistakes or else we will move 8 years down the road and do the same stupid thing over again Indeed. So who is the best candidate for 2020? > middle america ... labeling African Americans as criminals in the best case, or as genetically inferior and predisposed in the worst case You might want to check your stereotypes of middle america. Those are really ugly accusations. > how democrats and the coasts are to blame, well, this is revisionist history I didn't suggest anyone is to blame, I just said they've been forgotten

notatoad 9y ago

I will never understand the voter who is frustrated with a lack of support from their government and thinks the party most likely to help them is the one that advocates for dismantling the social safety net.

Clubber 9y ago
I believe it's because people don't want handouts, they want an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Not an unreasonable demand. I would say based on US Puritan cultural roots, and how our capitalistic system works, it would be a necessity.
- southpawflo 9y ago
  what are the definitions for an honest day's work and pay? do you think that the definitions would be the same between a 6th generation american white male and a 1st generation american latino male?
  - southpawflo 9y ago
    even though I'm being downvoted I'm still curious as to what the defs are
    - Clubber 9y ago
      Well it's such a broad question. I tried to answer it a few times, but it ended up being very long winded and only covered a few edge cases. The first one is easy - enough to pay the bills and live a decent life, including the ability to raise a family while having basic needs and some occasional extravagances met. The second one depends on time, location and circumstance and changes from time, location and circumstance depending on which of the millions of people you are comparing. It's more of a macroeconomic / socioeconomic / philosophic question rather than a microeconomic one. The best I can answer is sometimes they would be the same, some times group A would take less than group B, sometimes group B would take less than group A. I would guess given the same location and cost of living, they would be similar.

djtriptych 9y ago

What part of Trump or Bernie isn’t coastal or elite?

paulsutter 9y ago
/Relatable/ is a good word for the democrats to consider in candidates for 2020. Trump and Bernie are certainly coastal, but there's nothing elite about them. And I didn't say "elite". I said ELITISTS, which are electoral kryptonite.
- AdamJacobMuller 9y ago
  Bernie was definitely in a good position for this prior to the 2016 election, but, the revelations of his collusion with and acquiescence to the DNC in the 2016 election cycle poisoned him to many voters, myself included.
  - torstenvl 9y ago
    Yes! Damn those Presidential candidates of a given party! Always in cahoots with the party's national committee!
  - djtriptych 9y ago
    Did you vote for anyone?