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What you are saying is troubling because it shows that many people really don't understand what it is that we call racist -- and it's not studies like these. I
by pron 9y ago
What you are saying is troubling because it shows that many people really don't understand what it is that we call racist -- and it's not studies like these. I am a radical leftist (and a radical feminist) and I do not consider a statistical assertion such as "black people in the US are significantly overrepresented among those who commit violent crimes" at all as racist. What is racist (not just "labeled" racist; we usually "label" as racist things that are actually racist[1]) are various conclusions -- often hinted and sometimes explicitly stated -- that simply do not follow from the data according to any reasonable scientific standard and make claims about certain causes of such an effect.
[1]: Though not necessarily xenophobic; the difference between the two confuses many people, as does the difference between sexist and misogynistic. Xenophobia and misogyny imply a certain intent, a certain feeling of resentment towards other races, cultures and genders, while racism and sexism are merely actions or inactions -- usually unintentional and sometimes even well-meaning -- that serve to increase or maintain the current disparity in power among different groups. While I don't like applying the terms sexist and racist to people, as they're best applied to actions, laws, rules, institutions etc., we can apply them to those who do racist/sexist things. I know I'm racist and sexist, and I can assume you are, too. If you spend some time learning about those concepts, you know it is very much expected for people in racist/sexist societies to be racist and sexist, and it takes active effort to fight them. People should not be offended that they're racist and sexist, just as they should not be offended to learn that they may be carrying and spreading germs that cause infectious diseases, although I'm sure many were insulted to be "labeled" as disease-spreading when microbes were first discovered. Once you understand those "labels" aren't insults but well-researched observations, you know you shouldn't be offended by them, but you should learn to identify racist/sexist behaviors and prevent them, just as you learned to wash your hands.
- coldtea 9y ago>What you are saying is troubling because it shows that many people really don't understand what it is that we call racist -- and it's not studies like these. I am a radical leftist (and a radical feminist) and I do not consider a statistical assertion such as "black people in the US are significantly overrepresented among those who commit violent crimes" at all as racist. You might not, but lots of people do -- and publicly say so.
- pron 9y agoNot true, and this is precisely what I find troubling -- that you misunderstand them and miss the actual problem they point out. Obviously, I can't vouch for everyone, but since I haven't seen any behavior of the kind you refer to (certainly not among more-or-less mainstream figure), I can safely assume it's not done by "lots of people".
- justAnotherNET 9y agoDo we need to start linking famous peoples tweets to show that your position is false? Plenty of people jump on the “that’s racism” bandwagon. If they can’t attack the math they attack the author and make wild accusations about their intent. Truth is treason in an empire of lies, and socially most would rather live with comfortable lies.
- whatyoucantsay 9y agoVery true. Ben Affleck on Real Time was a perfect example of this. He literally equated challenging bad ideas with racism.
- acdha 9y agoDo you have a citation for that? It’s not what we’re talking about – no one is being criticized for actual science – but the coverage I saw didn’t support that claim at all.
- whatyoucantsay 9y agoA citation? I shudder at the idea of lending an air of academic gravitas to Bill Maher's Real Time, but yes it's clear that jumping on the “that’s racism” bandwagon, as the gp put it, is exactly what Affleck did. He was so angered by the statement, "We have been sold this meme of Islamophobia, where every criticism of the doctrine of Islam get conflated as bigotry against Muslims as people. It is intellectually ridiculous." that he went on the offensive and said, "That's gross, it's racist. It's like saying you're a 'shifty Jew.' You guys are saying: 'If you want to be liberals, believe in liberal principles, like freedom of speech" Whatever your opinion about the acceptability of criticizing Islam over violence, sexism or treatment of homosexuals, it's clear that some people do equate that criticism with racism. Ideological intolerance can often make people blind to nuanced positions, such as being open to a group of people but not all of their traditional beliefs. > " no one is being criticized for actual science" Take a look at what evolutionary psychologists and biologists have been facing over the past decade. The criticism coming form people who have little experience in their fields, but intense political and social beliefs, has been intense.
- whatyoucantsay 9y ago> "Xenophobia and misogyny imply a certain intent, a certain feeling of resentment towards other races, cultures and genders" Xenophobia means "fear of outsiders" and misogyny means "hatred or contempt of women". There's nothing implied or indirect about either.
- justAnotherNET 9y agoNope, Xenophobia means the irrational fear of outsiders. In-group bias has a distinct evolutionary advantage. Rational fear of the unknown keeps you alive. To correctly classify someone has xenophobic you need to demonstrate their irrationality.