4 ms·

I was a low-information student, first to go to college in family. Once I decided to go however, the entire equation was what college could I afford and the li

by gedy 9y ago

I was a low-information student, first to go to college in family. Once I decided to go however, the entire equation was what college could I afford and the living costs. Loans never felt like an option. Because of that, I basically was forced to choose a state school and live off campus in cheap housing. Plus side is I came out with no debt, drawback is I didn't have much fun. I guess that biases my thinking, but student debt forgiveness seems ridiculous for most all of the people I know who went deep in debt for a non-economically practical degree.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
klodolph 9y ago
If that's your perspective, I can understand why it would seem ridiculous. But consider other perspectives. Think of all the people who weren't the first in their family to go to college. Imagine that you're 18, and everyone you know tells you that you need to go to school to get a good job. People are competing to get into better schools, and you get admitted to a relatively nice private college with a beautiful campus. Your parents went to a similar college, graduated, got jobs, started a family, and are encouraging you to do the same thing. Except now, college is something like 5x as expensive as it was for your parents, teachers, and advisors, adjusted for inflation. Your job prospects after college are worse, too. Maybe you manage to pull in $15/hr and you think it's pretty good, but meanwhile rent is 50% higher than it was for your parents and teachers. You feel like you were lied to, betrayed, and you feel trapped. As a society, we created this problem. I'm not trying to take away agency from the people who chose to take out loans and study whatever they felt like, but we did send an army of teachers and academic advisers after our children telling them that college is what you need, and loans are how you pay for it. The idea of a "non-economically practical degree" is a bit of a red herring, here. It doesn't matter as much which degree you get as an undergraduate. Sure, there are a few high-paying degrees like geology but in many fields you can get work with a range of degrees. Based on what I was majoring in, people would ask me if I was going to go into teaching, as if that were the only option for someone in my field. Yet here I am, working in industry.
- rayiner 9y ago
  Then the teachers, parents, and professors who lied to you about education should bear the cost, instead of the future taxpayers currently in utero.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    A reasonable proposal if Baby Boomers wouldn’t continue to subjugate future generations to crippling tax rates due to irresponsible financial policy decisions today. The US has trillions (!!!) of dollars in liabilities that will need to be paid and we're still inacting tax cuts “because taxes are too high”. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ http://www.usdebtclock.org/
  - klodolph 9y ago
    Funny you should mention future taxpayers in utero, because it's the generation with student loan debt that's not having children because they're too busy paying off student loans. They're skittish about getting married because maybe you're in love with someone who's $50k in debt, and you're not sure if you want to deal with that kind of burden. Also, the idea of taxing "teachers, parents, and professors who lied to you" is absurd at face value.
    - rayiner 9y ago
      Why is the idea of taxing the people who created the problem absurd? One, they’re the ones with wealth to tax. Two, their ignorantly optimistic mindset is responsible for the education bubble. Both generations prior and this current generation realized the value of working instead of pursuing higher education. Three, they benefited from it. The vast apparatus of higher education, professors, administrators, etc., aren’t staffed with millenials.
      - klodolph 9y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean by "taxing the people who created the problem". Do we just tax people based on their age, and assume that anyone over 50 probably had their hand in this? Or do we test people to see if they ever gave bad advice to children, and give them fines? Who, exactly, will be paying the tax, and how do we identify these people? Maybe I'm missing something, because this seems a bit too obviously absurd.
RickJWag 9y ago
Excellent post. I totally agree.

by gedy 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

klodolph 9y ago

If that's your perspective, I can understand why it would seem ridiculous. But consider other perspectives. Think of all the people who weren't the first in their family to go to college. Imagine that you're 18, and everyone you know tells you that you need to go to school to get a good job. People are competing to get into better schools, and you get admitted to a relatively nice private college with a beautiful campus. Your parents went to a similar college, graduated, got jobs, started a family, and are encouraging you to do the same thing. Except now, college is something like 5x as expensive as it was for your parents, teachers, and advisors, adjusted for inflation. Your job prospects after college are worse, too. Maybe you manage to pull in $15/hr and you think it's pretty good, but meanwhile rent is 50% higher than it was for your parents and teachers. You feel like you were lied to, betrayed, and you feel trapped. As a society, we created this problem. I'm not trying to take away agency from the people who chose to take out loans and study whatever they felt like, but we did send an army of teachers and academic advisers after our children telling them that college is what you need, and loans are how you pay for it. The idea of a "non-economically practical degree" is a bit of a red herring, here. It doesn't matter as much which degree you get as an undergraduate. Sure, there are a few high-paying degrees like geology but in many fields you can get work with a range of degrees. Based on what I was majoring in, people would ask me if I was going to go into teaching, as if that were the only option for someone in my field. Yet here I am, working in industry.

rayiner 9y ago
Then the teachers, parents, and professors who lied to you about education should bear the cost, instead of the future taxpayers currently in utero.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  A reasonable proposal if Baby Boomers wouldn’t continue to subjugate future generations to crippling tax rates due to irresponsible financial policy decisions today. The US has trillions (!!!) of dollars in liabilities that will need to be paid and we're still inacting tax cuts “because taxes are too high”. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ http://www.usdebtclock.org/
- klodolph 9y ago
  Funny you should mention future taxpayers in utero, because it's the generation with student loan debt that's not having children because they're too busy paying off student loans. They're skittish about getting married because maybe you're in love with someone who's $50k in debt, and you're not sure if you want to deal with that kind of burden. Also, the idea of taxing "teachers, parents, and professors who lied to you" is absurd at face value.
  - rayiner 9y ago
    Why is the idea of taxing the people who created the problem absurd? One, they’re the ones with wealth to tax. Two, their ignorantly optimistic mindset is responsible for the education bubble. Both generations prior and this current generation realized the value of working instead of pursuing higher education. Three, they benefited from it. The vast apparatus of higher education, professors, administrators, etc., aren’t staffed with millenials.
    - klodolph 9y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean by "taxing the people who created the problem". Do we just tax people based on their age, and assume that anyone over 50 probably had their hand in this? Or do we test people to see if they ever gave bad advice to children, and give them fines? Who, exactly, will be paying the tax, and how do we identify these people? Maybe I'm missing something, because this seems a bit too obviously absurd.

RickJWag 9y ago

Excellent post. I totally agree.