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> You can share files. In the cloud, each application defines its own half-assed abstraction over data storage, and you're limited to what the service allows yo

> You can share files. In the cloud, each application defines its own half-assed abstraction over data storage, and you're limited to what the service allows you and/or the company was bothered to implement. proposal-2-final-new-FINAL-draft-02-2018.docx isn't exactly sane data-sharing. With desktop environments you could use a version control system for that but that hardly ever happens in a consistent manner. You can create walled gardens both on the desktop and the web. That's a question of ethics not technology.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
> proposal-2-final-new-FINAL-draft-02-2018.docx isn't exactly sane data-sharing It is, when you can freely move it onto a USB drive, or attach to an e-mail, an IM message, or transmit over countless other systems that have no relation with Microsoft Office. > You can create walled gardens both on the desktop and the web. That's a question of ethics not technology. Yes, but that's pretty much a tautology. Technology is all about making stuff easier, and web is pretty enabling when it comes to walled gardens and other unethical conduct. Ultimately, the web is what killed end-user open source. A web application is an ultimate anathema to both open source and free software - you don't get to run the program as you like, you can't inspect it in any way (even if it's "open sourced", you can't verify if this is what really runs on third-party server), you can't distribute it, you can't modify it, and to top it off, you no longer own the data you work on with said software.
- BjoernKW 9y ago
  > Technology is all about making stuff easier, and web is pretty enabling when it comes to walled gardens and other unethical conduct. The web enabled us to reason about walled gardens in the first place. Before the advent of the web there was no talk about walled gardens simply because everything was a walled garden. > Ultimately, the web is what killed end-user open source That implies that end user open source had really lived before. For end users open source while not exactly irrelevant never has played a huge role. One reason for that perhaps is that there doesn't seem to be a long-term viable business model for open source desktop applications. > A web application is an ultimate anathema to both open source and free software - you don't get to run the program as you like, you can't inspect it in any way That's the case for pretty much any client-server application. The Affero GPL for example tries to remedy this but again that's more a question of business model rather than technology.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
  > Ultimately, the web is what killed end-user open source. A web application is an ultimate anathema to both open source and free software - you don't get to run the program as you like, you can't inspect it in any way (even if it's "open sourced", you can't verify if this is what really runs on third-party server), you can't distribute it, you can't modify it, and to top it off, you no longer own the data you work on with said software. On the other hand, there are many people who are aware of that and are actively using, developing and promoting the so-called "self-hosted" solutions - that is, completely free and open software that is in direct competition with closed web apps. Have a problem with a commercial, closed solution? Look here: https://github.com/Kickball/awesome-selfhosted https://github.com/Kickball/awesome-selfhosted Still haven't found what you need? You're always free to create one on your own. So you can't really argue that it is the web that "killed" end-user open source as it's very much alive, from VLC to WordPress.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Holy shit, that list is big! Thanks for it.

TeMPOraL 9y ago

> proposal-2-final-new-FINAL-draft-02-2018.docx isn't exactly sane data-sharing It is, when you can freely move it onto a USB drive, or attach to an e-mail, an IM message, or transmit over countless other systems that have no relation with Microsoft Office. > You can create walled gardens both on the desktop and the web. That's a question of ethics not technology. Yes, but that's pretty much a tautology. Technology is all about making stuff easier, and web is pretty enabling when it comes to walled gardens and other unethical conduct. Ultimately, the web is what killed end-user open source. A web application is an ultimate anathema to both open source and free software - you don't get to run the program as you like, you can't inspect it in any way (even if it's "open sourced", you can't verify if this is what really runs on third-party server), you can't distribute it, you can't modify it, and to top it off, you no longer own the data you work on with said software.

BjoernKW 9y ago
> Technology is all about making stuff easier, and web is pretty enabling when it comes to walled gardens and other unethical conduct. The web enabled us to reason about walled gardens in the first place. Before the advent of the web there was no talk about walled gardens simply because everything was a walled garden. > Ultimately, the web is what killed end-user open source That implies that end user open source had really lived before. For end users open source while not exactly irrelevant never has played a huge role. One reason for that perhaps is that there doesn't seem to be a long-term viable business model for open source desktop applications. > A web application is an ultimate anathema to both open source and free software - you don't get to run the program as you like, you can't inspect it in any way That's the case for pretty much any client-server application. The Affero GPL for example tries to remedy this but again that's more a question of business model rather than technology.
dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
> Ultimately, the web is what killed end-user open source. A web application is an ultimate anathema to both open source and free software - you don't get to run the program as you like, you can't inspect it in any way (even if it's "open sourced", you can't verify if this is what really runs on third-party server), you can't distribute it, you can't modify it, and to top it off, you no longer own the data you work on with said software. On the other hand, there are many people who are aware of that and are actively using, developing and promoting the so-called "self-hosted" solutions - that is, completely free and open software that is in direct competition with closed web apps. Have a problem with a commercial, closed solution? Look here: https://github.com/Kickball/awesome-selfhosted https://github.com/Kickball/awesome-selfhosted Still haven't found what you need? You're always free to create one on your own. So you can't really argue that it is the web that "killed" end-user open source as it's very much alive, from VLC to WordPress.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Holy shit, that list is big! Thanks for it.