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is breathing light really a requirement? I would prefer faster and cheaper computers. IMHO I find Apple computers to be equivalent of SUV's. You can get a desce

is breathing light really a requirement? I would prefer faster and cheaper computers. IMHO I find Apple computers to be equivalent of SUV's. You can get a descent laptop at nearly 20-30% cheaper from Dell/HP/ASUS. Maybe only Americans can afford such frivolity. The difference in price between a good Dell laptop and Apple one is same as wage for 1-2 months for a middle class person in most parts of the worlds.

omgsean 16y ago
What do you need faster for? Unless we're talking about gaming or rendering I would rather have a computer that loads Firefox half a second slower than one with a clunkier UI and less attention to detail. >Maybe only Americans can afford such frivolity. Tell us more about how you're better than us, please.
megablast 16y ago
Right, except the "SUV" is smaller, looks nicer, has a better OS, etc... And you can buy a HP/Dell that costs exactly the same as your Mac, if you looked at the more expensive end of their lineup. Apple does not make cheap computers. HP/Dell make both. And who really cares about faster these days?
- weaksauce 16y ago
  Faster is just one part of the whole experience. Buy a ssd and put that as your main drive in a mbp and you will have a faster computer and one that is aesthetically pleasing. The trackpad on the mbp makes it usable as a laptop without any peripherals. The fact that I can have my mbp sleep and wake with a reliability is one of the largest selling points to me. Every windows computer I have ever owned has consistently failed me on this point. Edit: I guess I should make it clear that I am agreeing with you.
  - madars 16y ago
    > Every windows computer I have ever owned has consistently failed me on this point. Ever tried ThinkPad? :)
    - weaksauce 16y ago
      The lenovo one yeah:) it also failed it's motherboard for no reason. Maybe by the time I got that one from work I was too gun shy to give it a thorough test of the sleeping abilities though.
irons 16y ago
That you can read a thread like this and describe the sleep LED behavior as "frivolity" nicely encapsulates not only why Apple does well, but why a certain segment of its competition will never grasp why it keeps getting beaten.
- omnigoat 16y ago
  Conversely, it also encapsulates why Apple will never do well with a particular segment of its competition ;)
  - wtallis 16y ago
    Apple can't do well for that segment of the market until those people start to take Apple seriously. Right now, the prevailing opinion among Apple detractors seems to be that all the little touches are "fluff" and polish that don't add up to any monetary value at all. Evidence of this abounds: my favorite example is the multitouch touchpad that Apple uses. If somebody is saying something good about a pointing device on a non-Apple laptop, odds are good that they've never spent time with Apple's touchpad. It's that much better, but if you haven't used it and you don't trust Apple or anybody who uses Apple products, you'll probably never assign it more than about $5 of value, when experienced users would easily value it at ten times that. (That's why it isn't insane for apple to release a standalone touchpad for $70). Fortunately for Apple, far more people have been willing to try the iPhone than have been willing to try their computers, and many of them have discovered that "not sucking" is worth more than a few hundred megahertz. The "halo effect" is real, and is not due entirely to people "buying in" to an Apple lifestyle. The people who have strong technical or financial barriers to using Apple computers are far outnumbered by the proud Apple haters who haven't actually used a Mac long enough to appreciate the little things. However, unless somebody else starts releasing well designed computer hardware and software, Apple will eventually win over most of the haters through sheer ubiquity. (I expect that at some point, there will be a tipping point where hating Apple becomes uncool. If we pass that tipping point before Apple has serious competition, Apple will probably achieve a near-monopoly.)
    - danudey 16y ago
cubicle67 16y ago
I own a MacBook. I'm an a limited budget, and yet I paid more for it than I could have for similar spec non Apple hardware. You know why? Because I like it. My life is full of crappy cheap gadgets and things. Nearly everything I deal with on a day to day basis has been designed to be manufactured as cheaply and as quickly as possible, and it's evident. I like using my little MacBook; it's slim, it's light, it's beautifully built, it's aesthetically pleasing, it has a great keyboard, there's nothing else out there that comes close to the trackpad, it's full of nice touches and it feels like someone has put a lot of thought into it's design. About the same time, my sister bought herself a Toshiba laptop that, on paper, was equivalent to my macbook, but it cost her about 25% less. The toshiba is almost twice as fat, has a horrid keyboard, an even worse touch pad, a battery life of about two hours and flexes like you wouldn't believe. I guess it's similar to buying expensive clothes or paying more for a nice car (I have neither)
- webginja 16y ago
  You like paying for highly polished mediocrity
  - lzw 16y ago
    Except macs cost less and are better in every way. It is kinda funny that you guys have been telling this lie for 20 years and you think people don't all know you're full of it. Pathetic, but funny.
    - neeson 16y ago
      Oh great, it's you again. Apparently you're not getting it. Start engaging this community more intelligently or go back to 4Chan.
      - astrange 16y ago
        Lowercase c.
      - lzw 16y ago
spanktheuser 16y ago
But how much does the timing of the blinking light add to the cost of a macbook? Would it cost $10 less if it pulsed 40 beats/minutes like a Dell? Of course not. Maybe only Cornell students like yourself can afford such false dichotomy. By the way, did you know that the difference in annual tuition between Cornell and an excellent public school like the University of Michigan is three years salary for a middle class person in someplace like Mumbia, India? Is an Ivy League education really a requirement?
meelash 16y ago
If you prefer cheaper computers, buy a used one or two generations back model. Simple as that. Better than buying crap just for the psychological satisfaction of having something "new".
- lzw 16y ago
  Crap people buy crap computers. They aren't even thinking about it. It's like they don't think they are worthy enough, and so they're jealous of those of us with more Self esteem.
- JeremyChase 16y ago
  Normally I would agree with you, but having owned both I disagree. I think the latest generation of Macbook Pro's are just heads and tails above the older generations.
jsz0 16y ago
I don't think anyone is saying it's a requirement. Just a nice touch. Many people who work in technology are paid quite well and can afford to buy what they want instead of the bare minimum of what they need. I'd rather not be rude but since you went there why even buy a new computer at all? You could donate that money to one of those unfortunate places and feed a family for half a year.
philwelch 16y ago
I resent that remark, because I own a Mac and drive an SUV, and the SUV is exactly the kind of cheap-falling-apart-crap that the Mac is the total antithesis of. Maybe it's possible to make a well-designed SUV, but mine is just awful. Latest example: the gas cap doesn't screw on and off like an ordinary fucking gas cap, it's a turn-1/8-of-a-turn-and-pull-out gas cap, with a lock. So, with all those moving parts, it broke and I had to spend like $80 getting a shop to forcibly remove the thing and replace it with another gas cap (non-locking, so it's more reliable). This is when it got permanently jammed--when it was only temporarily jammed, the only way to put gas in the damned tank was to rear back and kick it in the gas cap, which allows you to unlock and remove the gas cap in the usual fashion. This little fix permanently bent my fuel door out of position. And newer SUV's are even worse. You can't even see out of the back of a fucking 08 Explorer.
- bonaldi 16y ago
  Did you pay Apple prices? A Range Rover, BMW X5 or VW Touareg isn't like some godawful Explorer.
  - elblanco 16y ago
    With even worse reliability statistics!
loewenskind 16y ago
The cost of owning a device is more than just what you initially pay. If you don't understand this you're never going to be well to do. I have about 6 different brands of laptop, which I use as my desktop and carry with me on my long commute. Every one of them started having odd hardware issues. The latest was a Acer. Within 2 weeks the backlight stopped working. I got it fixed (no laptop for at least 2 weeks) and within another month it was broken again. It continued to be a problem until the warranty expired. I'll never touch another Acer product as long as I live. Mac can and will have lemons like any company does, but their support makes me not have to fear this. That alone is worth any little extra I pay.
akshayubhat 16y ago
I assume I got few upvotes as well, its sad to see HN overtaken by Apple fanboi's. For those who disliked the comment didn't the POTUS [Obama] himself comment that iPad was a distraction.
lotusleaf1987 16y ago
You didn't even spell decent right, you wrote descent... And anyways, I don't want a "descent" laptop, I want one that I actually like using. I have a Dell for work and a Macbook for home. There is absolutely no comparison, Windows ruins the experience and hardware is not the sum of the product. Specs are meaningless, it's how the product actually performs.

omgsean 16y ago

What do you need faster for? Unless we're talking about gaming or rendering I would rather have a computer that loads Firefox half a second slower than one with a clunkier UI and less attention to detail. >Maybe only Americans can afford such frivolity. Tell us more about how you're better than us, please.

megablast 16y ago

Right, except the "SUV" is smaller, looks nicer, has a better OS, etc... And you can buy a HP/Dell that costs exactly the same as your Mac, if you looked at the more expensive end of their lineup. Apple does not make cheap computers. HP/Dell make both. And who really cares about faster these days?

weaksauce 16y ago
Faster is just one part of the whole experience. Buy a ssd and put that as your main drive in a mbp and you will have a faster computer and one that is aesthetically pleasing. The trackpad on the mbp makes it usable as a laptop without any peripherals. The fact that I can have my mbp sleep and wake with a reliability is one of the largest selling points to me. Every windows computer I have ever owned has consistently failed me on this point. Edit: I guess I should make it clear that I am agreeing with you.
- madars 16y ago
  > Every windows computer I have ever owned has consistently failed me on this point. Ever tried ThinkPad? :)
  - weaksauce 16y ago
    The lenovo one yeah:) it also failed it's motherboard for no reason. Maybe by the time I got that one from work I was too gun shy to give it a thorough test of the sleeping abilities though.

irons 16y ago

That you can read a thread like this and describe the sleep LED behavior as "frivolity" nicely encapsulates not only why Apple does well, but why a certain segment of its competition will never grasp why it keeps getting beaten.

omnigoat 16y ago
Conversely, it also encapsulates why Apple will never do well with a particular segment of its competition ;)
- wtallis 16y ago
  Apple can't do well for that segment of the market until those people start to take Apple seriously. Right now, the prevailing opinion among Apple detractors seems to be that all the little touches are "fluff" and polish that don't add up to any monetary value at all. Evidence of this abounds: my favorite example is the multitouch touchpad that Apple uses. If somebody is saying something good about a pointing device on a non-Apple laptop, odds are good that they've never spent time with Apple's touchpad. It's that much better, but if you haven't used it and you don't trust Apple or anybody who uses Apple products, you'll probably never assign it more than about $5 of value, when experienced users would easily value it at ten times that. (That's why it isn't insane for apple to release a standalone touchpad for $70). Fortunately for Apple, far more people have been willing to try the iPhone than have been willing to try their computers, and many of them have discovered that "not sucking" is worth more than a few hundred megahertz. The "halo effect" is real, and is not due entirely to people "buying in" to an Apple lifestyle. The people who have strong technical or financial barriers to using Apple computers are far outnumbered by the proud Apple haters who haven't actually used a Mac long enough to appreciate the little things. However, unless somebody else starts releasing well designed computer hardware and software, Apple will eventually win over most of the haters through sheer ubiquity. (I expect that at some point, there will be a tipping point where hating Apple becomes uncool. If we pass that tipping point before Apple has serious competition, Apple will probably achieve a near-monopoly.)
  - danudey 16y ago

cubicle67 16y ago

I own a MacBook. I'm an a limited budget, and yet I paid more for it than I could have for similar spec non Apple hardware. You know why? Because I like it. My life is full of crappy cheap gadgets and things. Nearly everything I deal with on a day to day basis has been designed to be manufactured as cheaply and as quickly as possible, and it's evident. I like using my little MacBook; it's slim, it's light, it's beautifully built, it's aesthetically pleasing, it has a great keyboard, there's nothing else out there that comes close to the trackpad, it's full of nice touches and it feels like someone has put a lot of thought into it's design. About the same time, my sister bought herself a Toshiba laptop that, on paper, was equivalent to my macbook, but it cost her about 25% less. The toshiba is almost twice as fat, has a horrid keyboard, an even worse touch pad, a battery life of about two hours and flexes like you wouldn't believe. I guess it's similar to buying expensive clothes or paying more for a nice car (I have neither)

webginja 16y ago
You like paying for highly polished mediocrity
- lzw 16y ago
  Except macs cost less and are better in every way. It is kinda funny that you guys have been telling this lie for 20 years and you think people don't all know you're full of it. Pathetic, but funny.
  - neeson 16y ago
    Oh great, it's you again. Apparently you're not getting it. Start engaging this community more intelligently or go back to 4Chan.
    - astrange 16y ago
      Lowercase c.
    - lzw 16y ago

spanktheuser 16y ago

But how much does the timing of the blinking light add to the cost of a macbook? Would it cost $10 less if it pulsed 40 beats/minutes like a Dell? Of course not. Maybe only Cornell students like yourself can afford such false dichotomy. By the way, did you know that the difference in annual tuition between Cornell and an excellent public school like the University of Michigan is three years salary for a middle class person in someplace like Mumbia, India? Is an Ivy League education really a requirement?

meelash 16y ago

If you prefer cheaper computers, buy a used one or two generations back model. Simple as that. Better than buying crap just for the psychological satisfaction of having something "new".

lzw 16y ago
Crap people buy crap computers. They aren't even thinking about it. It's like they don't think they are worthy enough, and so they're jealous of those of us with more Self esteem.
JeremyChase 16y ago
Normally I would agree with you, but having owned both I disagree. I think the latest generation of Macbook Pro's are just heads and tails above the older generations.

jsz0 16y ago

I don't think anyone is saying it's a requirement. Just a nice touch. Many people who work in technology are paid quite well and can afford to buy what they want instead of the bare minimum of what they need. I'd rather not be rude but since you went there why even buy a new computer at all? You could donate that money to one of those unfortunate places and feed a family for half a year.

philwelch 16y ago

I resent that remark, because I own a Mac and drive an SUV, and the SUV is exactly the kind of cheap-falling-apart-crap that the Mac is the total antithesis of. Maybe it's possible to make a well-designed SUV, but mine is just awful. Latest example: the gas cap doesn't screw on and off like an ordinary fucking gas cap, it's a turn-1/8-of-a-turn-and-pull-out gas cap, with a lock. So, with all those moving parts, it broke and I had to spend like $80 getting a shop to forcibly remove the thing and replace it with another gas cap (non-locking, so it's more reliable). This is when it got permanently jammed--when it was only temporarily jammed, the only way to put gas in the damned tank was to rear back and kick it in the gas cap, which allows you to unlock and remove the gas cap in the usual fashion. This little fix permanently bent my fuel door out of position. And newer SUV's are even worse. You can't even see out of the back of a fucking 08 Explorer.

bonaldi 16y ago
Did you pay Apple prices? A Range Rover, BMW X5 or VW Touareg isn't like some godawful Explorer.
- elblanco 16y ago
  With even worse reliability statistics!

loewenskind 16y ago

The cost of owning a device is more than just what you initially pay. If you don't understand this you're never going to be well to do. I have about 6 different brands of laptop, which I use as my desktop and carry with me on my long commute. Every one of them started having odd hardware issues. The latest was a Acer. Within 2 weeks the backlight stopped working. I got it fixed (no laptop for at least 2 weeks) and within another month it was broken again. It continued to be a problem until the warranty expired. I'll never touch another Acer product as long as I live. Mac can and will have lemons like any company does, but their support makes me not have to fear this. That alone is worth any little extra I pay.

akshayubhat 16y ago

I assume I got few upvotes as well, its sad to see HN overtaken by Apple fanboi's. For those who disliked the comment didn't the POTUS [Obama] himself comment that iPad was a distraction.

lotusleaf1987 16y ago

You didn't even spell decent right, you wrote descent... And anyways, I don't want a "descent" laptop, I want one that I actually like using. I have a Dell for work and a Macbook for home. There is absolutely no comparison, Windows ruins the experience and hardware is not the sum of the product. Specs are meaningless, it's how the product actually performs.