4 ms·

> Chess Pawn was approved as part of Unicode 1.1 in 1993 under the name “Black Chess Pawn” and added to Emoji 11.0 in 2018. Another existing normal character t

> Chess Pawn was approved as part of Unicode 1.1 in 1993 under the name “Black Chess Pawn” and added to Emoji 11.0 in 2018. Another existing normal character that got turned into an emoji and so will be rendered with funny colors rather than the original font color in firefox :( Can't even use a simple left or right pointing triangle to indicate something anymore without it possibly getting funny colors in firefox :( ◀ ▶

williamscales 9y ago
Shouldn't it be possible to use fontconfig to force emojis to render under whatever font you want? At least on Linux I think this should be possible.
ZenPsycho 9y ago
Unicode standard has a way of dealing with this: You can force non-emoji presentation by following your character with U+FE0E as detailed in this note: http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Presentation_Style http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Presentation_Style whether any particular browser or operating system actually implements this though is up to chance I suppose. edit: reading through the data files shows that chess pawn is intended to be shown with normal non emoji presentation by default, and only be shown with emoji presentation if followed by an emoji presentation character. source: https://www.unicode.org/Public/emoji/11.0/emoji-data.txt https://www.unicode.org/Public/emoji/11.0/emoji-data.txt
- dspillett 9y ago
  Surely it would have made more sense for the existing behaviour to be the default and have to request the new formatting, instead of potentially changing the presentation of existing documents?
  - lotyrin 9y ago
    Or just not bother with unification? Have "Pawn" and "Emoji Pawn" it's not like we're starving for space. This and things like CJK unifications make me feel like design happens on a level of naive convenience instead of giving a shit about what things mean or how they are used.
    - ZenPsycho 9y ago
      it turns out that, to many people's surprise, trying to create a computer encoding for every human written language is extremely political, and weird compromises have to be made. I think initially the CJK unification was because unicode thought they'd only ever need 16 bits, and that's pretty much the only way to fit all those characters in that space. now it's up to 21 bits and I wonder if that will ultimately be enough. But effectively the presentation system (in theory, stuff still needs to implement it) does make "pawn" and "emoji pawn", by having "emoji pawn" be [pawn character] [emoji presentation character]
  - ZenPsycho 9y ago
    Each character specifies whether it has emoji presentation and separately whether text presentation or emoji presentation ought to be default, in theory, with the pictograms that were initially text-presentation, and now have an emoji presentation, specified to be text-presentation by default. Whether operating systems or browsers implement this is up to chance.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Surely it would have made more sense for the existing behaviour to be the default Since the pawn doesn't have the Emoji_Presentation property, that's basically what the standard says outside of contexts where emoji presentation is the default for anything that has the emoji property; the text presentation and emoji presentation modifiers are generically available to override the defaults.
daveFNbuck 9y ago
I'm confused. What was the normal character that got turned into chess pawn? Or are you saying chess pawn was already a normal character and is now unnecessarily an emoji?
- Zarel 9y ago
  Yes, U+265F is currently a normal character. http://graphemica.com/%E2%99%9F http://graphemica.com/%E2%99%9F That codepoint is slated to also have an emoji representation in Unicode 11. As far as I can tell, it will default to the normal character.
  - daveFNbuck 9y ago
    So the issue is that in Unicode 11 the black chess pawn will change appearance from a simple silhouette to a more detailed image that stands out from regular text?
dingo_bat 9y ago
I'm seeing black arrows in Firefox and Chrome. Blue emoji arrows in Edge.

williamscales 9y ago

Shouldn't it be possible to use fontconfig to force emojis to render under whatever font you want? At least on Linux I think this should be possible.

ZenPsycho 9y ago

Unicode standard has a way of dealing with this: You can force non-emoji presentation by following your character with U+FE0E as detailed in this note: http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Presentation_Style http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Presentation_Style whether any particular browser or operating system actually implements this though is up to chance I suppose. edit: reading through the data files shows that chess pawn is intended to be shown with normal non emoji presentation by default, and only be shown with emoji presentation if followed by an emoji presentation character. source: https://www.unicode.org/Public/emoji/11.0/emoji-data.txt https://www.unicode.org/Public/emoji/11.0/emoji-data.txt

dspillett 9y ago
Surely it would have made more sense for the existing behaviour to be the default and have to request the new formatting, instead of potentially changing the presentation of existing documents?
- lotyrin 9y ago
  Or just not bother with unification? Have "Pawn" and "Emoji Pawn" it's not like we're starving for space. This and things like CJK unifications make me feel like design happens on a level of naive convenience instead of giving a shit about what things mean or how they are used.
  - ZenPsycho 9y ago
    it turns out that, to many people's surprise, trying to create a computer encoding for every human written language is extremely political, and weird compromises have to be made. I think initially the CJK unification was because unicode thought they'd only ever need 16 bits, and that's pretty much the only way to fit all those characters in that space. now it's up to 21 bits and I wonder if that will ultimately be enough. But effectively the presentation system (in theory, stuff still needs to implement it) does make "pawn" and "emoji pawn", by having "emoji pawn" be [pawn character] [emoji presentation character]
- ZenPsycho 9y ago
  Each character specifies whether it has emoji presentation and separately whether text presentation or emoji presentation ought to be default, in theory, with the pictograms that were initially text-presentation, and now have an emoji presentation, specified to be text-presentation by default. Whether operating systems or browsers implement this is up to chance.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Surely it would have made more sense for the existing behaviour to be the default Since the pawn doesn't have the Emoji_Presentation property, that's basically what the standard says outside of contexts where emoji presentation is the default for anything that has the emoji property; the text presentation and emoji presentation modifiers are generically available to override the defaults.

daveFNbuck 9y ago

I'm confused. What was the normal character that got turned into chess pawn? Or are you saying chess pawn was already a normal character and is now unnecessarily an emoji?

Zarel 9y ago
Yes, U+265F is currently a normal character. http://graphemica.com/%E2%99%9F http://graphemica.com/%E2%99%9F That codepoint is slated to also have an emoji representation in Unicode 11. As far as I can tell, it will default to the normal character.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  So the issue is that in Unicode 11 the black chess pawn will change appearance from a simple silhouette to a more detailed image that stands out from regular text?

dingo_bat 9y ago

I'm seeing black arrows in Firefox and Chrome. Blue emoji arrows in Edge.