4 ms·

It's great to see alternative personal development like this proposed. Hopefully governments and doctors will find a safe way to do further research.

mindcrime 9y ago
Hopefully governments and doctors will find a safe way to do further research. This is how the government does research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra Thanks, but no thanks. Keep the government out of it, please.
- anarazel 9y ago
  Yes, pre Church committee secret CIA research is really applicable to the topic at hand.
  - mindcrime 9y ago
    Oh, you mean you trust the US government because of the Church Committee? Good point; after all, they haven't done anything shady, nefarious, underhanded, or illegal since then. And the other world governments, I'm sure their hands are clean as well...
  - montyf 9y ago
    How isn't it? Anyway, I agree with his comment but for a different reason: government "research" isn't historically trustworthy. Any psychedelics research sponsored by the government, directly or indirectly, is going to end up like marijuana research[0] and like research into alternative therapies[1]. Of course, they will continue coming up with opposite findings for drugs that lobbyists can profit from, like SSRI's. The FDA is able to literally pick and choose studies that work for them[2]. [0]: http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170319/governments-marijuana-is-terrible-for-scientific-studies-researchers-say http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170319/governments-marijuana-... [1]: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31190909/ns/health-alternative_medicine/t/billion-spent-no-alternative-cures-found/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31190909/ns/health-alternative_med... (It took 2.5 billion dollars to find out that yoga and meditation "may" help with anxiety etc.) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor#Controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_i...
    - Godel_unicode 9y ago
      Before throwing around accusations like this, you might want to consider the evidence. For instance, how often has an FDA-approved drug been pulled because it was dangerous in unknown ways vs drugs which haven't been through the FDA? Conversely, how many home cures have been shown to be useless or even actively harmful? I find it interesting that you are citing the study on homeopathy in such a gerrymandered way; first, it's not $2.5 billion just on yoga and meditation by any reasonable interpretation. Second, the major conclusion of the study is that virtually no holistic/homeopathic remedies have any health value above the placebo effect. Thirdly yoga and meditation haven't been found to be beneficial, they rather have not had conclusive results either way.
      - montyf 9y ago
        You're telling me to consider the evidence? That's funny. Let's just ignore how the US government has been fudging studies for decades to support whatever agendas suited them, whether it be pro-wheat industry, pro-sugar industry, pro-pharmaceutical industry, the list goes on and on. I could spend a day sitting here listing examples of great Uncle Sam and their "studies" and "research". Seriously, I thought people on HN were just a little bit smarter than this.

mindcrime 9y ago

Hopefully governments and doctors will find a safe way to do further research. This is how the government does research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra Thanks, but no thanks. Keep the government out of it, please.

anarazel 9y ago
Yes, pre Church committee secret CIA research is really applicable to the topic at hand.
- mindcrime 9y ago
  Oh, you mean you trust the US government because of the Church Committee? Good point; after all, they haven't done anything shady, nefarious, underhanded, or illegal since then. And the other world governments, I'm sure their hands are clean as well...
- montyf 9y ago
  How isn't it? Anyway, I agree with his comment but for a different reason: government "research" isn't historically trustworthy. Any psychedelics research sponsored by the government, directly or indirectly, is going to end up like marijuana research[0] and like research into alternative therapies[1]. Of course, they will continue coming up with opposite findings for drugs that lobbyists can profit from, like SSRI's. The FDA is able to literally pick and choose studies that work for them[2]. [0]: http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170319/governments-marijuana-is-terrible-for-scientific-studies-researchers-say http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170319/governments-marijuana-... [1]: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31190909/ns/health-alternative_medicine/t/billion-spent-no-alternative-cures-found/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31190909/ns/health-alternative_med... (It took 2.5 billion dollars to find out that yoga and meditation "may" help with anxiety etc.) [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor#Controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_i...
  - Godel_unicode 9y ago
    Before throwing around accusations like this, you might want to consider the evidence. For instance, how often has an FDA-approved drug been pulled because it was dangerous in unknown ways vs drugs which haven't been through the FDA? Conversely, how many home cures have been shown to be useless or even actively harmful? I find it interesting that you are citing the study on homeopathy in such a gerrymandered way; first, it's not $2.5 billion just on yoga and meditation by any reasonable interpretation. Second, the major conclusion of the study is that virtually no holistic/homeopathic remedies have any health value above the placebo effect. Thirdly yoga and meditation haven't been found to be beneficial, they rather have not had conclusive results either way.
    - montyf 9y ago
      You're telling me to consider the evidence? That's funny. Let's just ignore how the US government has been fudging studies for decades to support whatever agendas suited them, whether it be pro-wheat industry, pro-sugar industry, pro-pharmaceutical industry, the list goes on and on. I could spend a day sitting here listing examples of great Uncle Sam and their "studies" and "research". Seriously, I thought people on HN were just a little bit smarter than this.