6 ms·

Really, taking their adult autonomy away is the first step? How about education? This might be anecdotal, but I feel like we don't hear these athlete bankruptc

by Kluny 9y ago

Really, taking their adult autonomy away is the first step? How about education? This might be anecdotal, but I feel like we don't hear these athlete bankruptcy stories as often about hockey players. Why? Because they're all white, not black. Putting a kid through junior hockey is expensive and hockey players tend to come from privileged homes with much better financial education than young black football players. They get just as many knocks on the head, but they get better advice from their father's accountant, and they make it to retirement with some money left. Making them sign away control of their money sounds like a new version of the old story of infantilizing black people by removing their adult rights, "for their own good".

saikit 9y ago
Could be an exception to the rule, but the highest profile athlete bankruptcy recently is from a hockey player http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/columbus-blue-jackets-jack-johnson-gives-up-two-years-of-his-salary-to-settle-debts http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/columbus-blue-jackets-jack-j...
- meow1032 9y ago
  That was a bit of a different story since his parents took out loans in his name.
test6554 9y ago
They do exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_NHL_players https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_NHL_players
talmand 9y ago
I'm curious as to how hockey is any more expensive than any other sport that has player equipment and a privileged background is more beneficial to making it to the professional level than any other sport. Could it be that black kids as a group just isn't that interested in playing hockey?
- SheepSlapper 9y ago
  Skates are more expensive than cleats. Hockey sticks break or are grown out of, and decent ones are a few hundred bucks.
  - talmand 9y ago
    A quick look at Google shopping disagrees with shoes vs skates and hockey sticks. Although I'm not up to speed at what qualifies as a decent hockey stick and the required cost.
    - NoPiece 9y ago
      There are inexpensive youth and junior skates (<$100), but these are for younger kids. As soon as you are wearing adult sized skates (10-12yrs old), the price is many times that of cleats. https://www.purehockey.com/c/ice-hockey-skates-senior https://www.purehockey.com/c/ice-hockey-skates-senior
      - talmand 9y ago
        Ah, you provided examples unlike the other comment I responded to. Thank you for that. But if priced low-to-high the senior skates on that site start at $64.99 and go up from there. Assuming that the lower cost skates are not worth it, you get what you pay for and all that, what's wrong with the middle tier skates that are in the $100-$200 range? How long do they last once a kid's foot doesn't outgrow it every 3-to-6 months?
    - dizzystar 9y ago
      A decent pair of hockey skates are $300+. You also have to take them in to get sharpened every week if you are that aggressive on them. This is $60/mth. You also have to invest in padding, helmets, gloves, socks, and so on.
      - talmand 9y ago
        What defines a "decent pair" of skates and why do they cost $300? Wouldn't a nice pair off the shelf at less than $100 or around $50 suffice for a young kid just wanting to play hockey? I didn't consider the maintenance aspect; the need for sharpening makes sense though.
majormajor 9y ago
Seems pretty anecdotal. Hockey tends to get less press in general than baseball, so I know of a lot more broke white baseball players than broke white hockey players. There's some broke white golfers out there too, that's another money-requiring sport. Any broke Formula 1 race drivers or tennis players? That's where you'd really look for athletes coming from wealthy families, I think.
- Kluny 9y ago
  In Canada it's different - our sports press is all hockey, all the time. Granted I don't pay much attention to it, but if any sports news makes it to my news feed, it probably is going to be about atheletes going bankrupt.
- brewdad 9y ago
  Anecdotally, I majored in economics at a large public school with a (at the time) national championship caliber hockey team. All of the players on that team that made it to the NHL attended the same classes I did. Most did come from privileged backgrounds but at least one grew up in the projects of Toronto. The coach strongly encouraged his players to take at least a few classes that would give them some financial grounding.
LordKano 9y ago
I would consider a much less drastic step. Mandatory contribution of 10% of their income into an investment account and that has a maximum annual withdrawal of 1% until age 55. If they otherwise destroy their finances, they'll at least be able to afford a place to live.
- Kluny 9y ago
  In Canada we have the CPP (Canada Pension Plan) which is almost literally this, except everyone pays into it.
  - LordKano 9y ago
    In the US, we have Social Security and everyone pays into that but for the most part, you can't collect anything on the benefits until you reach retirement age or become permanently disabled.
- ggm 9y ago
  Not a bad idea. Here in Australia we call that superannuation. 9% of salary is mandatory.
Spooky23 9y ago
That’s a unique spin. It’s not about infantilizing. Hockey players also make a lot less, with fewer big payouts and thus fewer big flameouts. Personally, I think the unions should help guide these guys. New money leading to bankruptcy is a universal story, not unique to any race. Athletes are particularly vulnerable to scammers, as they spend a lot of time isolated by coaches with a small group of people. Self dealing trusted advisors and that isolation makes them vulnerable.
- mobilefriendly 9y ago
  Hockey players make more than football players.
  - mattm 9y ago
    And the average NHL career is only a few years like the NFL.
ggm 9y ago
Really, taking their adult autonomy away is the first step? How about education? When do you educate somebody about how to control millions of dollars of assets, in the moment of giving them autonomy over them? If you want to propose education, then its rational to propose the control over the money before and during education is there, no? or, do you propose letting them blow the million on drugs and sex, and then teach them how to sustainably hold onto it, when all they have is a debt hole?
ggm 9y ago
To this Making them sign away control of their money sounds like a new version of the old story of infantilizing black people by removing their adult rights, "for their own good". Yes, that's certainly a dimension. And it works in Australia too, where aboriginal workers had their cash both sequestrated and then stolen. In my defence, weak though it is, there was no moment I actually intended to refer to specifically black sportspeople. If more black people in sports in America are financially uneducated, the bias in outcome would be there. I am pretty sure immature spending behaviour is colourblind and in all seriousness I meant this across race and culture: I think huge cash incentives for young people should be constrained to last. I'm not a libertarian.

by Kluny 9y ago

saikit 9y ago

Could be an exception to the rule, but the highest profile athlete bankruptcy recently is from a hockey player http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/columbus-blue-jackets-jack-johnson-gives-up-two-years-of-his-salary-to-settle-debts http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/columbus-blue-jackets-jack-j...

meow1032 9y ago
That was a bit of a different story since his parents took out loans in his name.

test6554 9y ago

They do exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_NHL_players https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_NHL_players

talmand 9y ago

I'm curious as to how hockey is any more expensive than any other sport that has player equipment and a privileged background is more beneficial to making it to the professional level than any other sport. Could it be that black kids as a group just isn't that interested in playing hockey?

SheepSlapper 9y ago
Skates are more expensive than cleats. Hockey sticks break or are grown out of, and decent ones are a few hundred bucks.
- talmand 9y ago
  A quick look at Google shopping disagrees with shoes vs skates and hockey sticks. Although I'm not up to speed at what qualifies as a decent hockey stick and the required cost.
  - NoPiece 9y ago
    There are inexpensive youth and junior skates (<$100), but these are for younger kids. As soon as you are wearing adult sized skates (10-12yrs old), the price is many times that of cleats. https://www.purehockey.com/c/ice-hockey-skates-senior https://www.purehockey.com/c/ice-hockey-skates-senior
    - talmand 9y ago
      Ah, you provided examples unlike the other comment I responded to. Thank you for that. But if priced low-to-high the senior skates on that site start at $64.99 and go up from there. Assuming that the lower cost skates are not worth it, you get what you pay for and all that, what's wrong with the middle tier skates that are in the $100-$200 range? How long do they last once a kid's foot doesn't outgrow it every 3-to-6 months?
  - dizzystar 9y ago
    A decent pair of hockey skates are $300+. You also have to take them in to get sharpened every week if you are that aggressive on them. This is $60/mth. You also have to invest in padding, helmets, gloves, socks, and so on.
    - talmand 9y ago
      What defines a "decent pair" of skates and why do they cost $300? Wouldn't a nice pair off the shelf at less than $100 or around $50 suffice for a young kid just wanting to play hockey? I didn't consider the maintenance aspect; the need for sharpening makes sense though.

majormajor 9y ago

Seems pretty anecdotal. Hockey tends to get less press in general than baseball, so I know of a lot more broke white baseball players than broke white hockey players. There's some broke white golfers out there too, that's another money-requiring sport. Any broke Formula 1 race drivers or tennis players? That's where you'd really look for athletes coming from wealthy families, I think.

Kluny 9y ago
In Canada it's different - our sports press is all hockey, all the time. Granted I don't pay much attention to it, but if any sports news makes it to my news feed, it probably is going to be about atheletes going bankrupt.
brewdad 9y ago
Anecdotally, I majored in economics at a large public school with a (at the time) national championship caliber hockey team. All of the players on that team that made it to the NHL attended the same classes I did. Most did come from privileged backgrounds but at least one grew up in the projects of Toronto. The coach strongly encouraged his players to take at least a few classes that would give them some financial grounding.

LordKano 9y ago

I would consider a much less drastic step. Mandatory contribution of 10% of their income into an investment account and that has a maximum annual withdrawal of 1% until age 55. If they otherwise destroy their finances, they'll at least be able to afford a place to live.

Kluny 9y ago
In Canada we have the CPP (Canada Pension Plan) which is almost literally this, except everyone pays into it.
- LordKano 9y ago
  In the US, we have Social Security and everyone pays into that but for the most part, you can't collect anything on the benefits until you reach retirement age or become permanently disabled.
ggm 9y ago
Not a bad idea. Here in Australia we call that superannuation. 9% of salary is mandatory.

Spooky23 9y ago

That’s a unique spin. It’s not about infantilizing. Hockey players also make a lot less, with fewer big payouts and thus fewer big flameouts. Personally, I think the unions should help guide these guys. New money leading to bankruptcy is a universal story, not unique to any race. Athletes are particularly vulnerable to scammers, as they spend a lot of time isolated by coaches with a small group of people. Self dealing trusted advisors and that isolation makes them vulnerable.

mobilefriendly 9y ago
Hockey players make more than football players.
- mattm 9y ago
  And the average NHL career is only a few years like the NFL.

ggm 9y ago

Really, taking their adult autonomy away is the first step? How about education? When do you educate somebody about how to control millions of dollars of assets, in the moment of giving them autonomy over them? If you want to propose education, then its rational to propose the control over the money before and during education is there, no? or, do you propose letting them blow the million on drugs and sex, and then teach them how to sustainably hold onto it, when all they have is a debt hole?

ggm 9y ago

To this Making them sign away control of their money sounds like a new version of the old story of infantilizing black people by removing their adult rights, "for their own good". Yes, that's certainly a dimension. And it works in Australia too, where aboriginal workers had their cash both sequestrated and then stolen. In my defence, weak though it is, there was no moment I actually intended to refer to specifically black sportspeople. If more black people in sports in America are financially uneducated, the bias in outcome would be there. I am pretty sure immature spending behaviour is colourblind and in all seriousness I meant this across race and culture: I think huge cash incentives for young people should be constrained to last. I'm not a libertarian.