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My advice for them? Don't tell people you paid for a coding bootcamp. Without fail, every single "code bootcamp" that has applied for a job here has had a hor

My advice for them? Don't tell people you paid for a coding bootcamp. Without fail, every single "code bootcamp" that has applied for a job here has had a horrible resume. They didn't have anything on their resume that wasn't from the bootcamp, and even that was horrible. And they generally failed our "use Flickr's API to get some images" test that we give out. Miserably. I think we ended up interviewing 1 of them, out of dozens, and they just weren't worth trying out. So now, when I see that on a resume, I groan. I still go look at whatever's on their Github, but I'm already primed to fail them. They would have been better off having nothing on the resume and anything in their portfolio.

jamestimmins 9y ago
Can you expand on what you mean by "They didn't have anything on their resume that wasn't from the bootcamp, and even that was horrible."? Do you mean the projects they built, or the list of courses they've taken?
- edmundhuber 9y ago
  Like the top comment I have passed on many bootcamp graduates, and many of my colleagues have too. I can only think of one bootcamp graduate that was ever hired at any org I worked at. When we look at an application/resume from a bootcamp grad, it tends to only contain: "this is what I was doing before", "this is the bootcamp I went to and the projects we did there" (sometimes, these are cleverly formatted to appear as projects done after the bootcamp. We can generally see right through this, and it feels a little dishonest, but it is fine.) What would make a bootcamp grad resume infinitely more attractive is if they demonstrated their enthusiasm by doing more projects. What it comes down to for me is: this person wants to have a job that many people go to a 4 year program for. Additionally, lots of those people who went to the 4 year programs had an inherent interest in the subject even before starting schooling. Bootcamp grads are heavily outclassed in general by these candidates, and an org is taking a risk (burden) by hiring a bootcamp grad. So, it goes a long way for a bootcamp grad to 1) demonstrate that they're going to come in fighting and have a raw enthusiasm, 2) possibly tie in their previous employment (biotech? stats? very relevant.) These two things are going to be their strongest assets coming into the job. Not whatever they learned at bootcamp.
  - jamestimmins 9y ago
    Ah ok, that makes sense, thanks for the info. I can see how only having a bootcamp and an unrelated background gives just a single data point to work with, which even then isn't very illuminating.
whichdan 9y ago
- Why would you expect them to have more than the bootcamp on their resume? Most people don't have prior programming experience, and most bootcamps are demanding, such that they wouldn't have time for side projects. - Is the test using a language they're familiar with? An editor they're familiar with? Is it pair programming, or are they just given a computer and a desk? Are they allowed to use Google/SO/etc? - Why do you expect them to have a curated and up-to-date GitHub? Most of the code on there will only be stuff related to their bootcamp program. Without knowing the specifics of your interview or the particular bootcamps you're hiring from, it sounds like your expectations are mismatched with what the bootcamps are teaching.
- wccrawford 9y ago
  We expect them to be able to code at a junior level. They cannot. I wouldn't even consider most of them for an internship, and the rest only grudgingly. Yes, I expect them to have more projects in their Github account than just what the bootcamp forced them to do. If they don't care enough about programming to do that, then they probably don't care enough about programming for us to hire them.
vailripper 9y ago
I've found it depends on the bootcamp. There are a select few that do a good job and produce solid junior developers, but the VAST majority are trash and produce developers similar to what you describe.

jamestimmins 9y ago

Can you expand on what you mean by "They didn't have anything on their resume that wasn't from the bootcamp, and even that was horrible."? Do you mean the projects they built, or the list of courses they've taken?

edmundhuber 9y ago
Like the top comment I have passed on many bootcamp graduates, and many of my colleagues have too. I can only think of one bootcamp graduate that was ever hired at any org I worked at. When we look at an application/resume from a bootcamp grad, it tends to only contain: "this is what I was doing before", "this is the bootcamp I went to and the projects we did there" (sometimes, these are cleverly formatted to appear as projects done after the bootcamp. We can generally see right through this, and it feels a little dishonest, but it is fine.) What would make a bootcamp grad resume infinitely more attractive is if they demonstrated their enthusiasm by doing more projects. What it comes down to for me is: this person wants to have a job that many people go to a 4 year program for. Additionally, lots of those people who went to the 4 year programs had an inherent interest in the subject even before starting schooling. Bootcamp grads are heavily outclassed in general by these candidates, and an org is taking a risk (burden) by hiring a bootcamp grad. So, it goes a long way for a bootcamp grad to 1) demonstrate that they're going to come in fighting and have a raw enthusiasm, 2) possibly tie in their previous employment (biotech? stats? very relevant.) These two things are going to be their strongest assets coming into the job. Not whatever they learned at bootcamp.
- jamestimmins 9y ago
  Ah ok, that makes sense, thanks for the info. I can see how only having a bootcamp and an unrelated background gives just a single data point to work with, which even then isn't very illuminating.

whichdan 9y ago

- Why would you expect them to have more than the bootcamp on their resume? Most people don't have prior programming experience, and most bootcamps are demanding, such that they wouldn't have time for side projects. - Is the test using a language they're familiar with? An editor they're familiar with? Is it pair programming, or are they just given a computer and a desk? Are they allowed to use Google/SO/etc? - Why do you expect them to have a curated and up-to-date GitHub? Most of the code on there will only be stuff related to their bootcamp program. Without knowing the specifics of your interview or the particular bootcamps you're hiring from, it sounds like your expectations are mismatched with what the bootcamps are teaching.

wccrawford 9y ago
We expect them to be able to code at a junior level. They cannot. I wouldn't even consider most of them for an internship, and the rest only grudgingly. Yes, I expect them to have more projects in their Github account than just what the bootcamp forced them to do. If they don't care enough about programming to do that, then they probably don't care enough about programming for us to hire them.

vailripper 9y ago

I've found it depends on the bootcamp. There are a select few that do a good job and produce solid junior developers, but the VAST majority are trash and produce developers similar to what you describe.