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Someone in my family has fought for the US in every war since the civil war. They have fought, bled, and died for this country, paid taxes, and helped build it

Someone in my family has fought for the US in every war since the civil war. They have fought, bled, and died for this country, paid taxes, and helped build it from a weak country to the most powerful civilization in human history. They did it because they wanted their children and grandchildren to have a better life. Why should I feel guilty about this?

ForHackernews 9y ago
Because you did absolutely nothing to earn having good family members? Most people feel at least sheepish about their own success when faced with others, no less deserving, who experience failure.
- galieos_ghost 9y ago
  The point is that millions of people made sacrifices for themselves and their families which cumulatively created the greatest civilization in history. Why should we feel guilty about reaping the benefits of those sacrifices? Why should we feel obligated to hand over our prosperity to those who contributed nothing to it?
  - ryanianian 9y ago
    Don't feel guilty, but realize that you're not entitled to what you have - you got lucky being born to parents who worked so hard etc. Continue to work as hard as they did and appreciate their work.
    - atomicUpdate 9y ago
      > realize that you're not entitled to what you have That's ridiculous. The fact that his parents worked hard is what entitled him to the life he has, all the way up the chain to the ones that emigrated to America and earlier. This 'original sin' stuff that people are trying to push just because we are born in the US is crap.
      - ryanianian 9y ago
        I'm not super interested in debating this philosophy and your response reads to me as pretty flippant and entitled, so I'll bow out. I hope you receive everything you're entitled to.
        duderific 9y ago
        I don't understand why you're "bowing out" instead of debating, if you have a strong case to make. What about the GP's post is factually incorrect?
      - s73v3r_ 9y ago
        People all over the world work quite hard. Yet, their families don't get anywhere near the benefits that some others do.
        lr4444lr 9y ago
        They haven't lost them at the expense of those others either, though, nor would the people who have more likely have received it if the people who had to work for them knew that they would be whisked away in large measure to iron out every last inequality.
    - refurb 9y ago
      The only thing talking about privilege does is create a game of one-upmanship where everyone tries to tear others success down. I would argue everyone is privileged to some degree. Hell, being born in a first world country makes you way more privileged than most of the world. And yes, there is luck involved, but hard work plays a massive role in outcomes. To ignore that is folly.
  - geodel 9y ago
    Ideally not. But then your government unilaterally decided that spreading American values, culture, and products is the best thing to do. And now a lot of people want to come here and experience first hand.
    - galieos_ghost 9y ago
      I'm fine with that, as long as they can positively contribute. I'm not fine with bringing in millions of people who immediately go on benefits while US citizens can't afford health care, college, and military vets are living on the street
      - bigmanwalter 9y ago
        The reason the US can't afford any of that is because it's not a priority. Every other modern country manages to pay for all that and now they are also putting up with large scale immigration such as with Syrian refugees.
      - pjc50 9y ago
        > millions of people who immediately go on benefits This is difficult in most countries and extremely so in the US. Which benefits? How do they prove entitlement to them? By what process are they entitled to them but the military vets living on the street aren't? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I suspect it happens a lot less often than you think. (also, you've done the old "Schroedinger's immigrant" thing: at the top of the thread we were talking about jobs, you're talking about benefits now. Who are these people who simultaneously go on benefits while also stealing your job?)
        galieos_ghost 9y ago
        illegal immigrants drive down wages in low skill jobs which depresses wages up the chain because natives have to find more skilled jobs to retain their previous standard of living. At the same time their children, whether "dreamers" or native born get free education and healthcare the average cost per student in the US is around 15k the highest in the world, which these kids receive for free despite their parents never paying into the system. The end result is that illegal immigration costs US federal and state governments 85-100 billion a year. I support highly skilled labor ie top .1% of worldwide talent, not unlimited immigration sponsored by corporations to drive down wages for US citizens, whether that be low skilled manufacturing or software engineering http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/01/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-illegal-immigration-costs-113-bi/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/... https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burde...
  - potta_coffee 9y ago
    You shouldn't feel guilty. The Privilege argument is a way for people to feel like victims instead of taking responsibility for their own destiny. Life is unfair and it's quite impossible to accurately distinguish all the ways life has been unfair to all the different people. Is a white person's privilege balanced out because they are a cripple? There's not scientific metric to measure any of this, it's the new moral fashion an nothing else. Bring on the downvotes, I don't give a shit.
    - lr4444lr 9y ago
      Down voting is one of the few powers some downtrodden people have in this world. You won't even afford them the satisfaction of at least pretending they hurt your feelings? ;-)
- lr4444lr 9y ago
  This is a quasi-religious reversal of cause and effect. Parents create children. Children aren't assigned parents. People - real flesh and blood people, not abstractions - devote an enormous amount of their resources and waking life to doing the best possible for their next generation.
  - ForHackernews 9y ago
    ? You're the one reversing cause and effect. As though I should feel proud and deserving that my ancestors (who, mind, I had nothing to do with) worked hard, got lucky, and gifted me remarkable advantages.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

ForHackernews 9y ago

Because you did absolutely nothing to earn having good family members? Most people feel at least sheepish about their own success when faced with others, no less deserving, who experience failure.

galieos_ghost 9y ago
The point is that millions of people made sacrifices for themselves and their families which cumulatively created the greatest civilization in history. Why should we feel guilty about reaping the benefits of those sacrifices? Why should we feel obligated to hand over our prosperity to those who contributed nothing to it?
- ryanianian 9y ago
  Don't feel guilty, but realize that you're not entitled to what you have - you got lucky being born to parents who worked so hard etc. Continue to work as hard as they did and appreciate their work.
  - atomicUpdate 9y ago
    > realize that you're not entitled to what you have That's ridiculous. The fact that his parents worked hard is what entitled him to the life he has, all the way up the chain to the ones that emigrated to America and earlier. This 'original sin' stuff that people are trying to push just because we are born in the US is crap.
    - ryanianian 9y ago
      I'm not super interested in debating this philosophy and your response reads to me as pretty flippant and entitled, so I'll bow out. I hope you receive everything you're entitled to.
      - duderific 9y ago
        I don't understand why you're "bowing out" instead of debating, if you have a strong case to make. What about the GP's post is factually incorrect?
    - s73v3r_ 9y ago
      People all over the world work quite hard. Yet, their families don't get anywhere near the benefits that some others do.
      - lr4444lr 9y ago
        They haven't lost them at the expense of those others either, though, nor would the people who have more likely have received it if the people who had to work for them knew that they would be whisked away in large measure to iron out every last inequality.
  - refurb 9y ago
    The only thing talking about privilege does is create a game of one-upmanship where everyone tries to tear others success down. I would argue everyone is privileged to some degree. Hell, being born in a first world country makes you way more privileged than most of the world. And yes, there is luck involved, but hard work plays a massive role in outcomes. To ignore that is folly.
- geodel 9y ago
  Ideally not. But then your government unilaterally decided that spreading American values, culture, and products is the best thing to do. And now a lot of people want to come here and experience first hand.
  - galieos_ghost 9y ago
    I'm fine with that, as long as they can positively contribute. I'm not fine with bringing in millions of people who immediately go on benefits while US citizens can't afford health care, college, and military vets are living on the street
    - bigmanwalter 9y ago
      The reason the US can't afford any of that is because it's not a priority. Every other modern country manages to pay for all that and now they are also putting up with large scale immigration such as with Syrian refugees.
    - pjc50 9y ago
      > millions of people who immediately go on benefits This is difficult in most countries and extremely so in the US. Which benefits? How do they prove entitlement to them? By what process are they entitled to them but the military vets living on the street aren't? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I suspect it happens a lot less often than you think. (also, you've done the old "Schroedinger's immigrant" thing: at the top of the thread we were talking about jobs, you're talking about benefits now. Who are these people who simultaneously go on benefits while also stealing your job?)
      - galieos_ghost 9y ago
        illegal immigrants drive down wages in low skill jobs which depresses wages up the chain because natives have to find more skilled jobs to retain their previous standard of living. At the same time their children, whether "dreamers" or native born get free education and healthcare the average cost per student in the US is around 15k the highest in the world, which these kids receive for free despite their parents never paying into the system. The end result is that illegal immigration costs US federal and state governments 85-100 billion a year. I support highly skilled labor ie top .1% of worldwide talent, not unlimited immigration sponsored by corporations to drive down wages for US citizens, whether that be low skilled manufacturing or software engineering http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/01/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-illegal-immigration-costs-113-bi/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/... https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burde...
- potta_coffee 9y ago
  You shouldn't feel guilty. The Privilege argument is a way for people to feel like victims instead of taking responsibility for their own destiny. Life is unfair and it's quite impossible to accurately distinguish all the ways life has been unfair to all the different people. Is a white person's privilege balanced out because they are a cripple? There's not scientific metric to measure any of this, it's the new moral fashion an nothing else. Bring on the downvotes, I don't give a shit.
  - lr4444lr 9y ago
    Down voting is one of the few powers some downtrodden people have in this world. You won't even afford them the satisfaction of at least pretending they hurt your feelings? ;-)
lr4444lr 9y ago
This is a quasi-religious reversal of cause and effect. Parents create children. Children aren't assigned parents. People - real flesh and blood people, not abstractions - devote an enormous amount of their resources and waking life to doing the best possible for their next generation.
- ForHackernews 9y ago
  ? You're the one reversing cause and effect. As though I should feel proud and deserving that my ancestors (who, mind, I had nothing to do with) worked hard, got lucky, and gifted me remarkable advantages.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]