4 ms·

I have read most of Cal's books and they are good. His fight against social media is... I don't know, extreme. The problem to me isn't social media per se. The

I have read most of Cal's books and they are good. His fight against social media is... I don't know, extreme. The problem to me isn't social media per se. The real problem is self-discipline/control. Cal crusades against social media, but I don't see him crusade against video games, or watching TV for example. I think a good/better metric is total screen time. My children are given an allowance in the form of screen time. I kind of do the same for myself and I have decent self-control. That is the key, I think... limits and control by taking responsibility for yourself and those you are charged to raise.

daxorid 9y ago
> The problem to me isn't social media per se. The real problem is self-discipline/control. I'd agree with you if it was firmly established that all people have full, conscious agency. But the very existence of compulsive behavior personalities and addiction demonstrates that agency is unequally distributed. While person A may easily be able to walk away from the dopamine bar by sheer force of will, person B may not. Person A's problem is surely with self-discipline, but person B's problem is with the dopamine bar.
- monkmartinez 9y ago
  You are 100% right, of course. I guess we still need more evolution.
Pigo 9y ago
I try to give my kids alternatives, or get them interested in other things. It bothers me when I've seen parents get angry because their kid is gaming constantly, especially when they are sitting there looking at their phone all night long. If that's all that they ever do, it's probably because they've watched you waste time every night.
toastking 9y ago
I think the difference is it's a little easier to control other forms of "screen time". That other stuff is pure entertainment and they don't have the addictive aspect of a feed.
- GVIrish 9y ago
  I dunno man, some games are really fucking addictive these days. Especially with some of the abusive gambling mechanics.
- monkmartinez 9y ago
  I would argue staunchly, that Fortnite (PS4 online version) is every bit as "addictive" as a FB feed. Ultimately, all they provide are shots of dopamine.
- stctgion 9y ago
  I think maybe it's because you can't win at Facebook. All the other forms of entertainment give you a sense of satisfaction on completion. Facebook is the complete opposite. It doesn't end and you can't really win at it. That's great from a commercial perspective but utterly unfulfilling for the user.
kvgr 9y ago
TV shows, specially Netflix have this sense of clifhangers and addiction. But one you are out of the house or at work, you just don't watch it :) You watch one episode, maybe another and then you are on the go to do stuff. Social media with their superduper optimized notifications and timelines are especially designed to pull you out of work and focus to let a little more of that "oh new gif baby falling over" or "Oh another person liked photo of baguette I had for lunch, that makes 2, sweet" high. And it is east to just switch tab and write Face+Enter...
pensivemood 9y ago
>The real problem is self-discipline/control. Lol. What a stupid argument! I know this is HN and I am supposed to be civil and all, but still, What a stupid, stupid argument..
- sctb 9y ago
  If you won't comment civilly and substantively we'll ban the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - pensivemood 9y ago
    I said the argument was stupid. Not the person making it. Smart people can sometimes make stupid argument. Even I make stupid arguments sometimes. I can only pray that the people around will tell me straight that my argument is stupid. Are you telling me that people in HN cannot tell me when my argument is stupid? Is there some flag that I can toggle to let people know that it is ok to tell me when I make a stupid argument? I mean, I don't know what else is preventing HN from being a safe place for stupid people to gather, pat each other on their back and feel safe, secure and validated... Oh well, may be it is already is..
    - sctb 9y ago
      The issue is that you've rudely said something completely uninformative. So instead of that, please say something substantive and do so civilly.
Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
>The problem to me isn't social media per se. The real problem is self-discipline/control. I think we need to have the self-awareness to acknowledge that humans are falliable, chemical creatures and that companies like Facebook are exploiting that in ways that are unethical and beyond most people's ability to adequately deal with. Let's not blame the victim here.
gaius 9y ago
The real problem is self-discipline/control The problem is that these things are what are being directly undermined. As humans we have for example a built in fear of what is now called FOMO; if the tribe was doing something and you weren't, your survivability was directly threatened. That's why it feels bad to be lonely, and good to be part of a mob. Facebook has weaponised human urges that operate below the level of rational thought. It's targeting the Intel Management Engine of our brains.

daxorid 9y ago

> The problem to me isn't social media per se. The real problem is self-discipline/control. I'd agree with you if it was firmly established that all people have full, conscious agency. But the very existence of compulsive behavior personalities and addiction demonstrates that agency is unequally distributed. While person A may easily be able to walk away from the dopamine bar by sheer force of will, person B may not. Person A's problem is surely with self-discipline, but person B's problem is with the dopamine bar.

monkmartinez 9y ago
You are 100% right, of course. I guess we still need more evolution.

Pigo 9y ago

I try to give my kids alternatives, or get them interested in other things. It bothers me when I've seen parents get angry because their kid is gaming constantly, especially when they are sitting there looking at their phone all night long. If that's all that they ever do, it's probably because they've watched you waste time every night.

toastking 9y ago

I think the difference is it's a little easier to control other forms of "screen time". That other stuff is pure entertainment and they don't have the addictive aspect of a feed.

GVIrish 9y ago
I dunno man, some games are really fucking addictive these days. Especially with some of the abusive gambling mechanics.
monkmartinez 9y ago
I would argue staunchly, that Fortnite (PS4 online version) is every bit as "addictive" as a FB feed. Ultimately, all they provide are shots of dopamine.
stctgion 9y ago
I think maybe it's because you can't win at Facebook. All the other forms of entertainment give you a sense of satisfaction on completion. Facebook is the complete opposite. It doesn't end and you can't really win at it. That's great from a commercial perspective but utterly unfulfilling for the user.

kvgr 9y ago

TV shows, specially Netflix have this sense of clifhangers and addiction. But one you are out of the house or at work, you just don't watch it :) You watch one episode, maybe another and then you are on the go to do stuff. Social media with their superduper optimized notifications and timelines are especially designed to pull you out of work and focus to let a little more of that "oh new gif baby falling over" or "Oh another person liked photo of baguette I had for lunch, that makes 2, sweet" high. And it is east to just switch tab and write Face+Enter...

pensivemood 9y ago

>The real problem is self-discipline/control. Lol. What a stupid argument! I know this is HN and I am supposed to be civil and all, but still, What a stupid, stupid argument..

sctb 9y ago
If you won't comment civilly and substantively we'll ban the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- pensivemood 9y ago
  I said the argument was stupid. Not the person making it. Smart people can sometimes make stupid argument. Even I make stupid arguments sometimes. I can only pray that the people around will tell me straight that my argument is stupid. Are you telling me that people in HN cannot tell me when my argument is stupid? Is there some flag that I can toggle to let people know that it is ok to tell me when I make a stupid argument? I mean, I don't know what else is preventing HN from being a safe place for stupid people to gather, pat each other on their back and feel safe, secure and validated... Oh well, may be it is already is..
  - sctb 9y ago
    The issue is that you've rudely said something completely uninformative. So instead of that, please say something substantive and do so civilly.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago

>The problem to me isn't social media per se. The real problem is self-discipline/control. I think we need to have the self-awareness to acknowledge that humans are falliable, chemical creatures and that companies like Facebook are exploiting that in ways that are unethical and beyond most people's ability to adequately deal with. Let's not blame the victim here.

gaius 9y ago

The real problem is self-discipline/control The problem is that these things are what are being directly undermined. As humans we have for example a built in fear of what is now called FOMO; if the tribe was doing something and you weren't, your survivability was directly threatened. That's why it feels bad to be lonely, and good to be part of a mob. Facebook has weaponised human urges that operate below the level of rational thought. It's targeting the Intel Management Engine of our brains.