5 ms·

Yes, I'm inclined to believe that rent control is a symptom, not the cause. The cause appears to be ridiculous zoning and building restrictions. If more housing

Yes, I'm inclined to believe that rent control is a symptom, not the cause. The cause appears to be ridiculous zoning and building restrictions. If more housing is available such that the price drops, then rent control isn't even needed.

anaptdemise 9y ago
It also appears to reduce the amount of available rentals. http://conference.nber.org/confer/2017/PEf17/Diamond_McQuade_Qian.pdf http://conference.nber.org/confer/2017/PEf17/Diamond_McQuade...
bpp 9y ago
100% agreed. There is no "by right" construction in San Francisco. If you want to build a building that fully within the intended zoning and use of the space as currently determined by the city, it is still subject to conditional approval and even environmental review. If someone in the neighborhood objects (100% odds of that happening), then they can tie you up for years, extracting concessions (often making the buildings smaller, and unfortunately often making them uglier). I'm particularly excited about some of the new legislation that's just been passed that allows for by right construction if a city isn't meeting its housing needs, because it just may streamline the process of getting things built here.
shams93 9y ago
I have rent control in Los Angeles but they're demolishing my place to make way for luxury condos, most likely for absentee owners. You can't find an apartment for under 2,000 a month in LA anymore but the way in which they demolish perhaps run down yet affordable apartments to make way for high end condos is a huge factor in the utter lack of affordable housing here. Not like people get rich in LA there is not even the income potential you have in SF and no stock options outside of Snap. I was born here so I have been treading water for life here but its getting harder and harder for people on salary to even afford to live here at all.
crdoconnor 9y ago
Ask a renter why rents are so high and they'll say a lack of rent control, because it brings their rent down. Ask a property developer why rents are so high and they'll complain that ridiculous zoning and building restrictions are preventing them from building enough new supply (...and coincidentally reducing the amount of profit they will be making). Ask a landlord why rents are so high and they'll complain that rent control is keeping the market from building enough housing (...and coincidentally reducing the amount of profit they will be making). If you ask me, it's untaxed land - the costs of holding on to those tiny one story + garage houses were made artificially low - among other things, by prop 13. They impose a cost on others for monopolizing that land, but they aren't paying that cost, so the market signals that would fix the problem (getting them to sell up to somebody who would build denser housing to avoid a large tax bill) are severely restrained.
- azinman2 9y ago
  Prop 13 also means my parents can afford to retire, as outside forces have come and multipled property values many times, and the city has very high property taxes. Otherwise to pay 1+% on some of the worlds most expensive real estate without active income is insane. I liked Cambridge, MA’s model... the first 250k of your property value is removed from property taxes. Doesn’t make a dent in big expensive houses, but makes property ownership more affordable on the lower end.
  - derekp7 9y ago
    Keep in mind that property taxes are only soft linked to property value. If everyone's property doubles in value, and the city needs X revenue to run, it is still divided by the relative value of everyone's property. The only time increased property value causes taxes to go up is if there is a lot of other property that doesn't go up in value (or taxable value), which is what you have with Prop 13. Also, if one area becomes more affluent than another one (increasing its value), then they will pay more taxes.
  - crdoconnor 9y ago
    >Prop 13 also means my parents can afford to retire, as outside forces have come and multipled property values many times I'm all for older people being given hand outs so that they can afford a comfortable retirement. In general I'd prefer hand outs to be allocated via need rather than a real estate driven lottery, but I can understand how winners of that real estate lottery could feel like it was a fair and just system.

anaptdemise 9y ago

It also appears to reduce the amount of available rentals. http://conference.nber.org/confer/2017/PEf17/Diamond_McQuade_Qian.pdf http://conference.nber.org/confer/2017/PEf17/Diamond_McQuade...

bpp 9y ago

100% agreed. There is no "by right" construction in San Francisco. If you want to build a building that fully within the intended zoning and use of the space as currently determined by the city, it is still subject to conditional approval and even environmental review. If someone in the neighborhood objects (100% odds of that happening), then they can tie you up for years, extracting concessions (often making the buildings smaller, and unfortunately often making them uglier). I'm particularly excited about some of the new legislation that's just been passed that allows for by right construction if a city isn't meeting its housing needs, because it just may streamline the process of getting things built here.

shams93 9y ago

I have rent control in Los Angeles but they're demolishing my place to make way for luxury condos, most likely for absentee owners. You can't find an apartment for under 2,000 a month in LA anymore but the way in which they demolish perhaps run down yet affordable apartments to make way for high end condos is a huge factor in the utter lack of affordable housing here. Not like people get rich in LA there is not even the income potential you have in SF and no stock options outside of Snap. I was born here so I have been treading water for life here but its getting harder and harder for people on salary to even afford to live here at all.

crdoconnor 9y ago

Ask a renter why rents are so high and they'll say a lack of rent control, because it brings their rent down. Ask a property developer why rents are so high and they'll complain that ridiculous zoning and building restrictions are preventing them from building enough new supply (...and coincidentally reducing the amount of profit they will be making). Ask a landlord why rents are so high and they'll complain that rent control is keeping the market from building enough housing (...and coincidentally reducing the amount of profit they will be making). If you ask me, it's untaxed land - the costs of holding on to those tiny one story + garage houses were made artificially low - among other things, by prop 13. They impose a cost on others for monopolizing that land, but they aren't paying that cost, so the market signals that would fix the problem (getting them to sell up to somebody who would build denser housing to avoid a large tax bill) are severely restrained.

azinman2 9y ago
Prop 13 also means my parents can afford to retire, as outside forces have come and multipled property values many times, and the city has very high property taxes. Otherwise to pay 1+% on some of the worlds most expensive real estate without active income is insane. I liked Cambridge, MA’s model... the first 250k of your property value is removed from property taxes. Doesn’t make a dent in big expensive houses, but makes property ownership more affordable on the lower end.
- derekp7 9y ago
  Keep in mind that property taxes are only soft linked to property value. If everyone's property doubles in value, and the city needs X revenue to run, it is still divided by the relative value of everyone's property. The only time increased property value causes taxes to go up is if there is a lot of other property that doesn't go up in value (or taxable value), which is what you have with Prop 13. Also, if one area becomes more affluent than another one (increasing its value), then they will pay more taxes.
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  >Prop 13 also means my parents can afford to retire, as outside forces have come and multipled property values many times I'm all for older people being given hand outs so that they can afford a comfortable retirement. In general I'd prefer hand outs to be allocated via need rather than a real estate driven lottery, but I can understand how winners of that real estate lottery could feel like it was a fair and just system.