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Probably will be a very unpopular opinion, but while I appreciate that HTTPS encrypts traffic, I do think a mandatory HTTPS usage comes with a cost, not so much
by cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
Probably will be a very unpopular opinion, but while I appreciate that HTTPS encrypts traffic, I do think a mandatory HTTPS usage comes with a cost, not so much mentioned in this thread. Here's what I think:
I think the mandatory usage of HTTPS centralizes the already centralized web even further. HTTPS itself is secure theoretically, but at the same time it relies on:
1. Trust in browser vendors: Basically the way HTTPS works currently is that all browsers have "trusted certificate sources" hardcoded. And there aren't that many browsers out there with meaningful market share--Chrome, Firefox, Edge, Safari, and that's about it (One may even say it's pretty much Chrome all the way, with rest of them trailing far back)
2. Trust in the certificate authorities: The way HTTPS works relies on "trusted certificate sources", like verisign. This was already way too centralized, but it will become even more so. I'm guessing eventually companies like Google or Apple will start acting as generic certificate authorities (as a verisign competitor) unless regulators cut in.
If you think about the implication of all this, the more we move towards an "HTTPS first world", the more power these entities will have and the more damage it will cause when one of them gets compromised.
Note that the web has never been forced to use HTTPS throughout its entire history, so we have no idea how this will play out and I'm just speculating based on my knowledge. HTTPS itself is secure, but as a lot of you know, most dangerous hacks come not from exploiting tech flaws, but by exploiting the weakest link in the value chain--the human factor. And when things become this centralized, the "human factor risk" becomes larger and larger. We have never before had a world where HTTPS was forced, so it's not easy to just visualize this or predict what will happen, but I can imagine there can be many ways the "The entire web can go down one day" because of the extreme centralization, and when I say "the entire web" I mean it literally. One day, some hacker will take advantage of the extremely centralized landscape of the web and probably be able to compromise the ENTIRE web, and you won't be able to browse the web all day, until Apple, Mozilla, or Google releases a security update. This will be way worse than what we've experienced with S3 going down, because it will obsolete security measures of ALL web browsers in one fell swoop.
Another thing I don't like about this "forced HTTPS" is that mandatory HTTPS makes it difficult to publish stuff to the web. You must either deploy your own Letsencrypt to run your website, or if it's too much of a hassle (which would be the case for most people, even developers), just run your website on a service provider that already has HTTPS.
This means people will rather publish their blogs on sites like medium.com rather than running their own wordpress server, or even a ghost blog.
And when this happens, where do you think people will flock to? Most people will flock to platforms that are most stable and have high reputation, such as Google, Facebook, etc., which will centralize the web even further.
I may sound like a tin foil hat conspiracy theory guy but I just wanted to share my thought since everyone seems to think "You must be fucking crazy moron to think that there can be some drawbacks with a forced HTTPS future". Google does have every interest to move the web this direction because they already own the "centralized web", and the more centralized it becomes the more they benefit.
Just to reiterate, I do think HTTPS is great, and user privacy should be respected. I am just providing an alternative opinion.
- lookingsideways 9y ago> Another thing I don't like about this "forced HTTPS" is that mandatory HTTPS makes it difficult to publish stuff to the web. You must either deploy your own Letsencrypt to run your website, or if it's too much of a hassle (which would be the case for most people, even developers), just run your website on a service provider that already has HTTPS. > This means people will rather publish their blogs on sites like medium.com rather than running their own wordpress server, or even a ghost blog. I think we'll just see an evolution of the tools available. For example, Ghost's CLI install already sets up letsencrypt for you along with auto-renew of certificates, anyone using that or the 1-click DigitalOcean droplet will get HTTPS with no extra setup difficulty compared to a non-HTTPS version.
- bfred_it 9y agoYou trust browser vendors pretty hard already since you're routing ALL of your information through them. > probably be able to compromise the ENTIRE web I don't buy it. HTTPS reduces what you can do, not increase it. At most it can give a false sense of security but that's about it.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago> You trust browser vendors pretty hard already since you're routing ALL of your information through them. Yes, but just because we already do doesn't mean I shouldn't have rights to hate the reality even more. > I don't buy it. HTTPS reduces what you can do, not increase it. At most it can give a false sense of security but that's about it. That's true. I wasn't arguing about what HTTPS can or cannot do, I was arguing about how HTTPS is centralized. No matter how safe a piece of technology is, the attack vector increases the more it gets centralized. I've never been a fan of the reality we live in--where the core protocol is elegantly decentralized yet we still end up with a centralized trust to be safe. I think it's ridiculous that every existing website in the world needs to have a certificate authorized by a small number of entities. Also another point I'm making is that people look at this move by Google and think "wow Google is really advancing the web!" but don't see their motivation behind it. 1. Google owns the "open web". 2. Enforcing HTTPS will make sure things become more centralized, which will make it easier for google to keep controlling the "open web". 3. Google profits. I know this sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I'm just stating the facts. I can't think of any other scenario when HTTPS gets more and more traction. It's important to distinguish this problem from the actual problem HTTPS is solving, because I do think HTTPS itself is great.