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Yeah that probably depends on your personal situation of course. But I met many 18F'ers and USDS'ers through my friends, lots of people coming on between startu

Yeah that probably depends on your personal situation of course. But I met many 18F'ers and USDS'ers through my friends, lots of people coming on between startups for a few months, some staying for years. They seem to match your current salary up to the federal civilian max, which appears to be $161,900. So that's not exactly a small amount, especially considering the additional benefits like excellent health care and blameless vacation-taking. Though you won't be getting catered lunches or free drinks/swag. Really just seems to depend on what you value. I've considered joining myself.

deleted 9y ago
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vostok 9y ago
It's not bad if you're just comparing base salaries, but it's hundreds of thousands lower than quite a few private sector jobs if you compare total compensation. Of course given the compensation and maximum length of tenure I imagine that most people are not doing it for the money.
- grepthisab 9y ago
  Woah, in all seriousness please let me know where $161k + great benefits is "hundreds of thousands" lower than similar private sector SWE jobs in total comp. I will be applying today. (I'm obviously assuming you're not comparing compensation for a swe at 18F with head of BeyondCorp or something, because that would be disingenuous and you seem like a reasonable person)
  - mtberatwork 9y ago
    "hundreds of thousands" is a bit of a stretch, but SWE w/security clearance at a small outfit will net you significantly more. Lots of tiny PO Box'd contractors around DC.
    - vonmoltke 9y ago
      Funny, in 15 years as a SwE with a clearance (not in DC) I never broke $100k total comp. Also, "hundreds of thousands" is a gross exaggeration. Most software engineers nationwide don't make that to begin with.
      - mtberatwork 9y ago
        > SwE with a clearance (not in DC) I never broke $100k total comp YMMV of course, but even without a clearance you are selling yourself short here.
        vonmoltke 9y ago
        I wasn't selling myself anything. I could barely get non-government contractors to even give me an interview, and nobody in the government space offered me anywhere near that much. I managed to get to $95k via same-company salary progression before I escaped to the private sector (and a better metro area).
  - vostok 9y ago
    You can use Facebook's annual report to find that the average annual stock based compensation at Facebook is around $188k. That's real, liquid stock that you can turn around and sell. It's not monopoly money. Add salary and bonus and you're well over $300k in total compensation. Is it hard to believe that some are going to be hitting more than $200k above the 18F numbers? Note that we're comparing the absolute max for GS employees to the average at Facebook.
    - vonmoltke 9y ago
      > Is it hard to believe that some are going to be hitting more than $200k above the 18F numbers? "Some people at Facebook" is a much smaller set than "quite a few private sector jobs", which the statement GP was responding to.
      - vostok 9y ago
        Some people at Facebook can be extended to some people at other companies too. I specifically picked a large, visible example where the information is publicly available. Perhaps GP misread "quite a few private sector jobs" as "most private sector jobs"?
- gshakir 9y ago
  Can you give an example? For a GS-15 Making max salary, which is 164K. That is the base. It goes up quite a bit if you include 5% 401k match and retirement. So the total compensation is quite more than just 164K.
  - inferiorhuman 9y ago
    So what's total comp as a GS-15? At megacorp I was making a bit more than $164k, but total comp worked out to over $210k. I've commented on the who's hiring thread about the US Digital Service's post. GS-15 base pay doesn't seem so bad, but drug testing, no relocation stipend (work from DC only), and no bonuses were all pretty big black marks.
    - bmogilefsky 9y ago
      I work at 18F. I have never been drug-tested. It's not a requirement for the job.
throwaway_45 9y ago
The median household income in DC is 75k. So you are making 130-160k you are way above the median. Everyone doesn't make 300k. Its like HN exists in its own universe.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Regardless of whether you're making above the median and your skills have more value, that should not require you to suffer a pay cut to spend 1-2 years doing thankless work. Regardless of DC median wages, housing is very expensive to be reasonably close to where you'd be working onsite for 18F or USDS assignments.
  - gowld 9y ago
    Being a little less rich than possible is a relative loss, but it's not "suffering". Nor is it more "thankless' than being a cog at a tech company.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  The median household income also includes many people doing unskilled labor. Attempting to compare skilled labor to unskilled labor like that only serves to drive down wages.
- gowld 9y ago
  No one is saying you can't afford to live on $160K GS-15 pay. They are saying it's hard to walk away from $200K-$300+K pay of a webtech job.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

vostok 9y ago

It's not bad if you're just comparing base salaries, but it's hundreds of thousands lower than quite a few private sector jobs if you compare total compensation. Of course given the compensation and maximum length of tenure I imagine that most people are not doing it for the money.

grepthisab 9y ago
Woah, in all seriousness please let me know where $161k + great benefits is "hundreds of thousands" lower than similar private sector SWE jobs in total comp. I will be applying today. (I'm obviously assuming you're not comparing compensation for a swe at 18F with head of BeyondCorp or something, because that would be disingenuous and you seem like a reasonable person)
- mtberatwork 9y ago
  "hundreds of thousands" is a bit of a stretch, but SWE w/security clearance at a small outfit will net you significantly more. Lots of tiny PO Box'd contractors around DC.
  - vonmoltke 9y ago
    Funny, in 15 years as a SwE with a clearance (not in DC) I never broke $100k total comp. Also, "hundreds of thousands" is a gross exaggeration. Most software engineers nationwide don't make that to begin with.
    - mtberatwork 9y ago
      > SwE with a clearance (not in DC) I never broke $100k total comp YMMV of course, but even without a clearance you are selling yourself short here.
      - vonmoltke 9y ago
        I wasn't selling myself anything. I could barely get non-government contractors to even give me an interview, and nobody in the government space offered me anywhere near that much. I managed to get to $95k via same-company salary progression before I escaped to the private sector (and a better metro area).
- vostok 9y ago
  You can use Facebook's annual report to find that the average annual stock based compensation at Facebook is around $188k. That's real, liquid stock that you can turn around and sell. It's not monopoly money. Add salary and bonus and you're well over $300k in total compensation. Is it hard to believe that some are going to be hitting more than $200k above the 18F numbers? Note that we're comparing the absolute max for GS employees to the average at Facebook.
  - vonmoltke 9y ago
    > Is it hard to believe that some are going to be hitting more than $200k above the 18F numbers? "Some people at Facebook" is a much smaller set than "quite a few private sector jobs", which the statement GP was responding to.
    - vostok 9y ago
      Some people at Facebook can be extended to some people at other companies too. I specifically picked a large, visible example where the information is publicly available. Perhaps GP misread "quite a few private sector jobs" as "most private sector jobs"?
gshakir 9y ago
Can you give an example? For a GS-15 Making max salary, which is 164K. That is the base. It goes up quite a bit if you include 5% 401k match and retirement. So the total compensation is quite more than just 164K.
- inferiorhuman 9y ago
  So what's total comp as a GS-15? At megacorp I was making a bit more than $164k, but total comp worked out to over $210k. I've commented on the who's hiring thread about the US Digital Service's post. GS-15 base pay doesn't seem so bad, but drug testing, no relocation stipend (work from DC only), and no bonuses were all pretty big black marks.
  - bmogilefsky 9y ago
    I work at 18F. I have never been drug-tested. It's not a requirement for the job.

throwaway_45 9y ago

The median household income in DC is 75k. So you are making 130-160k you are way above the median. Everyone doesn't make 300k. Its like HN exists in its own universe.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Regardless of whether you're making above the median and your skills have more value, that should not require you to suffer a pay cut to spend 1-2 years doing thankless work. Regardless of DC median wages, housing is very expensive to be reasonably close to where you'd be working onsite for 18F or USDS assignments.
- gowld 9y ago
  Being a little less rich than possible is a relative loss, but it's not "suffering". Nor is it more "thankless' than being a cog at a tech company.
s73v3r_ 9y ago
The median household income also includes many people doing unskilled labor. Attempting to compare skilled labor to unskilled labor like that only serves to drive down wages.
gowld 9y ago
No one is saying you can't afford to live on $160K GS-15 pay. They are saying it's hard to walk away from $200K-$300+K pay of a webtech job.