7 ms·

GS-15 is more than many pay, maybe not bay area or top, top companies. But I had friends there who made $160k-ish and had a hard time moving back to SF to mid-s

GS-15 is more than many pay, maybe not bay area or top, top companies. But I had friends there who made $160k-ish and had a hard time moving back to SF to mid-size startups because he would have had to take a pay cut (but with equity filling the gap). Plus it was pretty high impact work, and the ability to work remote on demand, so was hard to find something comparable if you're very mission driven or want a more "relaxed" lifestyle.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
It's not a bad deal if you're young and single. It wasn't tenable for me to bring my wife and daughter to share a townhouse with a bunch of other USDS [+] staff making $130k/year. [+] I'm aware that USDS and 18F are independent branches.
- grepthisab 9y ago
  Yeah that probably depends on your personal situation of course. But I met many 18F'ers and USDS'ers through my friends, lots of people coming on between startups for a few months, some staying for years. They seem to match your current salary up to the federal civilian max, which appears to be $161,900. So that's not exactly a small amount, especially considering the additional benefits like excellent health care and blameless vacation-taking. Though you won't be getting catered lunches or free drinks/swag. Really just seems to depend on what you value. I've considered joining myself.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - vostok 9y ago
    It's not bad if you're just comparing base salaries, but it's hundreds of thousands lower than quite a few private sector jobs if you compare total compensation. Of course given the compensation and maximum length of tenure I imagine that most people are not doing it for the money.
    - grepthisab 9y ago
      Woah, in all seriousness please let me know where $161k + great benefits is "hundreds of thousands" lower than similar private sector SWE jobs in total comp. I will be applying today. (I'm obviously assuming you're not comparing compensation for a swe at 18F with head of BeyondCorp or something, because that would be disingenuous and you seem like a reasonable person)
      - mtberatwork 9y ago
        "hundreds of thousands" is a bit of a stretch, but SWE w/security clearance at a small outfit will net you significantly more. Lots of tiny PO Box'd contractors around DC.
        vonmoltke 9y ago
        Funny, in 15 years as a SwE with a clearance (not in DC) I never broke $100k total comp. Also, "hundreds of thousands" is a gross exaggeration. Most software engineers nationwide don't make that to begin with.
        mtberatwork 9y ago
        > SwE with a clearance (not in DC) I never broke $100k total comp YMMV of course, but even without a clearance you are selling yourself short here.
        vonmoltke 9y ago
        I wasn't selling myself anything. I could barely get non-government contractors to even give me an interview, and nobody in the government space offered me anywhere near that much. I managed to get to $95k via same-company salary progression before I escaped to the private sector (and a better metro area).
      - vostok 9y ago
        You can use Facebook's annual report to find that the average annual stock based compensation at Facebook is around $188k. That's real, liquid stock that you can turn around and sell. It's not monopoly money. Add salary and bonus and you're well over $300k in total compensation. Is it hard to believe that some are going to be hitting more than $200k above the 18F numbers? Note that we're comparing the absolute max for GS employees to the average at Facebook.
  - throwaway_45 9y ago
    The median household income in DC is 75k. So you are making 130-160k you are way above the median. Everyone doesn't make 300k. Its like HN exists in its own universe.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Regardless of whether you're making above the median and your skills have more value, that should not require you to suffer a pay cut to spend 1-2 years doing thankless work. Regardless of DC median wages, housing is very expensive to be reasonably close to where you'd be working onsite for 18F or USDS assignments.
      - gowld 9y ago
        Being a little less rich than possible is a relative loss, but it's not "suffering". Nor is it more "thankless' than being a cog at a tech company.
    - s73v3r_ 9y ago
      The median household income also includes many people doing unskilled labor. Attempting to compare skilled labor to unskilled labor like that only serves to drive down wages.
    - gowld 9y ago
      No one is saying you can't afford to live on $160K GS-15 pay. They are saying it's hard to walk away from $200K-$300+K pay of a webtech job.
verst 9y ago
I was a GS-15 (Step 5) at 18F based in SF, so near the pay cap when you factor in the location adjustment (the government considers the Bay Area the most expensive region in the nation). Pay was about similar to Twitter (not counting sizable stock based compensation and bonuses, so of course a big pay cut all in all). Pay was significantly better than startups. When I worked at Google I was leveled quite low, so the comparison wouldn't be fair. Zero perks (no free coffee, etc). Retirements benefits only kick in after 3 years of government service. I definitely didn't join 18F for money. I was in for the mission and potential impact. I also liked the idea of being able to move around the country if necessary while keeping the same job.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

It's not a bad deal if you're young and single. It wasn't tenable for me to bring my wife and daughter to share a townhouse with a bunch of other USDS [+] staff making $130k/year. [+] I'm aware that USDS and 18F are independent branches.

grepthisab 9y ago
Yeah that probably depends on your personal situation of course. But I met many 18F'ers and USDS'ers through my friends, lots of people coming on between startups for a few months, some staying for years. They seem to match your current salary up to the federal civilian max, which appears to be $161,900. So that's not exactly a small amount, especially considering the additional benefits like excellent health care and blameless vacation-taking. Though you won't be getting catered lunches or free drinks/swag. Really just seems to depend on what you value. I've considered joining myself.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- vostok 9y ago
  It's not bad if you're just comparing base salaries, but it's hundreds of thousands lower than quite a few private sector jobs if you compare total compensation. Of course given the compensation and maximum length of tenure I imagine that most people are not doing it for the money.
  - grepthisab 9y ago
    Woah, in all seriousness please let me know where $161k + great benefits is "hundreds of thousands" lower than similar private sector SWE jobs in total comp. I will be applying today. (I'm obviously assuming you're not comparing compensation for a swe at 18F with head of BeyondCorp or something, because that would be disingenuous and you seem like a reasonable person)
    - mtberatwork 9y ago
      "hundreds of thousands" is a bit of a stretch, but SWE w/security clearance at a small outfit will net you significantly more. Lots of tiny PO Box'd contractors around DC.
      - vonmoltke 9y ago
        Funny, in 15 years as a SwE with a clearance (not in DC) I never broke $100k total comp. Also, "hundreds of thousands" is a gross exaggeration. Most software engineers nationwide don't make that to begin with.
        mtberatwork 9y ago
        > SwE with a clearance (not in DC) I never broke $100k total comp YMMV of course, but even without a clearance you are selling yourself short here.
        vonmoltke 9y ago
        I wasn't selling myself anything. I could barely get non-government contractors to even give me an interview, and nobody in the government space offered me anywhere near that much. I managed to get to $95k via same-company salary progression before I escaped to the private sector (and a better metro area).
    - vostok 9y ago
      You can use Facebook's annual report to find that the average annual stock based compensation at Facebook is around $188k. That's real, liquid stock that you can turn around and sell. It's not monopoly money. Add salary and bonus and you're well over $300k in total compensation. Is it hard to believe that some are going to be hitting more than $200k above the 18F numbers? Note that we're comparing the absolute max for GS employees to the average at Facebook.
- throwaway_45 9y ago
  The median household income in DC is 75k. So you are making 130-160k you are way above the median. Everyone doesn't make 300k. Its like HN exists in its own universe.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Regardless of whether you're making above the median and your skills have more value, that should not require you to suffer a pay cut to spend 1-2 years doing thankless work. Regardless of DC median wages, housing is very expensive to be reasonably close to where you'd be working onsite for 18F or USDS assignments.
    - gowld 9y ago
      Being a little less rich than possible is a relative loss, but it's not "suffering". Nor is it more "thankless' than being a cog at a tech company.
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    The median household income also includes many people doing unskilled labor. Attempting to compare skilled labor to unskilled labor like that only serves to drive down wages.
  - gowld 9y ago
    No one is saying you can't afford to live on $160K GS-15 pay. They are saying it's hard to walk away from $200K-$300+K pay of a webtech job.

verst 9y ago

I was a GS-15 (Step 5) at 18F based in SF, so near the pay cap when you factor in the location adjustment (the government considers the Bay Area the most expensive region in the nation). Pay was about similar to Twitter (not counting sizable stock based compensation and bonuses, so of course a big pay cut all in all). Pay was significantly better than startups. When I worked at Google I was leveled quite low, so the comparison wouldn't be fair. Zero perks (no free coffee, etc). Retirements benefits only kick in after 3 years of government service. I definitely didn't join 18F for money. I was in for the mission and potential impact. I also liked the idea of being able to move around the country if necessary while keeping the same job.