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Clever crows, but a real shame other predators are being killed off because of their unfamiliarity with an invasive species. I wonder if any naturally immune in
by overcast 9y ago
Clever crows, but a real shame other predators are being killed off because of their unfamiliarity with an invasive species. I wonder if any naturally immune individuals will rise up from the loss of their main populations.
- daveguy 9y agoMore likely some of those predators will learn to avoid them rather than become immune to their poison. Hopefully they will learn that before they are reduced to unsustainable levels.
- overcast 9y agoDo most animals have that ability though? How do you learn from something when you're dead from it nearly instantly? I don't think snakes have knowledge outside of instinct. That's the point of this crow article.
- WillReplyfFood 9y agoYou get snake-phobia and survive. You get a addictive behaviour and slowly immunize yourself with microdoses of poison. You hunt your prey in a poison diluting or neutralizing environment. You set the plains on fire with dryd grass to interrupt the feeding cycle of the plague and eat the denatured poisonous creatures. There are a lot of different strategies. One must admire the crows for eating the fugu though.
- overcast 9y agoWe're talking snakes here, and another animals that aren't really sentient. They aren't microdosing themselves with poison or setting fires.
- WillReplyfFood 9y agohttps://pickle.nine.com.au/2018/01/10/08/46/australian-birds-spreading-fire-catch-prey https://pickle.nine.com.au/2018/01/10/08/46/australian-birds... There are sources for addiction regarding animals on the web. Its quite interesting what horses and goats do for some weeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_River_toad#Drug_use_of_poison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_River_toad#Drug_use_o... The war on Horse-Drugs should have priority. Give the DEAs some hoes to whack out the danger.
- wavefunction 9y agoPretty cool link on the Colorado River toad. Apparently raccoons use the same strategy as these crows, turning the toad over on its back and eating the belly.
- wavefunction 9y agoPerhaps you mean sapient. Snakes and other animals are definitely sentient.
- toxicFork 9y agoThose actions can still be done unintentionally. For example, a particular kind of snake can prefer to eat some particular kind of fruit when they are young, which also happens to be the favourite plant for a cane toad to rub on to get rid of itchy bottoms.
- Falling3 9y agoI know sentience is an abused word, but for almost any of its practical definitions that's a false statement. Sentience is the ability for subjective experience, which applies to any of the animals being discussed here. If you're thinking of something like self-awareness (a totally separate quality), you're probably correct. But that has nothing to do with the ability to learn.
- tialaramex 9y agoNatural variation and selection. (Biological) Evolution changes populations, not individuals. Suppose there's one snake that is genetically disposed not to eat toad-shaped things, frogs, cane toads, anything like that, the same way I don't like nuts. They're not toxic to me, I could eat them, but I don't. Previously toads weren't toxic to snakes, but that snake didn't eat them. Normally that snake has a small disadvantage, other snakes eat toads and it goes without. Too bad. But now it won't get poisoned. This means it's slightly more likely to survive to adulthood, breed and produce more snakes. Further genetic changes to avoid toads will also be selected for in the same fashion. This process is very slow in multi-cellular creatures, but it does exist. It may not be fast enough to adapt to the cane toad of course.
- notheguyouthink 9y agoAppreciate your comment. It always impresses me how many people misunderstand the (what I feel to be) basic concepts of evolution. I'm not educated on the matter either, mind you - I'm sure I'm very ignorant on many aspects of it. Regardless, it always makes me wonder how much the anti-evolution "movement" would be affected if people simply had a better grasp of it.
- kbenson 9y agoQuite a bit of the provided possible outcome rests on likelihood of certain genetic factors and, relative size of snake population, and how quickly cane toads spread. The actual values of these variables (and a few more I'm sure) can change whether one population dies out or not and how quickly. Just because evolution provides a solution to the general problem, doesn't mean there's a solution that saves the population when the specific problem is looked at in detail. Invasive species cause local extinctions all the time.
- overcast 9y agoWe're not talking about natural selection, we're talking about actual learning(crow article), and discussing if other animals have that ability. I understand how evolution works.
- IntronExon 9y agohttp://www.pnas.org/content/101/49/17150 http://www.pnas.org/content/101/49/17150 They’re not learning, but they are evolving to cope.
- wil421 9y agoIt called instinct. It’s why cats know to go in litter boxes, why many animals are afraid of snakes, and why dogs bark.
- justasitsounds 9y agoArticle contains a link to a story about how conservationists are trying to 'teach' quolls (Australian native marsupial) by negative association with toad-meat sausages laced with a nausea inducing compoound : http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2017/08/toad-sausages-are-saving-our-quolls http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2017/...
- 8note 9y agonatural selection: the ones that don't eat will survive, and the ones that do will die
- Vanit 9y agoNot in one individual, but animals that die from eating them will self select themselves out of the gene pool (if done before they get a chance to mate), over time only leaving those that avoid it. The more generations that survive this the more it becomes an instinct.
- overcast 9y agoGuys, again, I understand natural selection. We're talking about learning(and indirectly teaching).