4 ms·
"everything else (games, system programming, embedded programming with an OS, etc) has mature and better options available such as Rust, Go, Nim, and (particula
by blub 9y ago
"everything else (games, system programming, embedded programming with an OS, etc) has mature and better options available such as Rust, Go, Nim, and (particularly for gamedev) C#."
We're supposed to interpret other comments in the most charitable way, but a charitable interpetation is not at all possible when one says that C# is a usable solution for systems and embedded programming, that Nim is mature, or go is used in games and is a good idea to use for embedded.
Even combining all of the above languages would not reach the breadth and maturity of C++ in the target domains.
- badsectoracula 9y agoMentioning C# for gamedev and the topic being about GUIs, makes me wonder if he was talking about tools? C# with WinForms are very popular for creating tools in game studios (if you notice tool screenshots from presentations like GDC, you'll often see the telltale marks of WinForms - like the gradient menubar, the default icon, the extra padding around some elements, etc).
- BoorishBears 9y agoAre we collectively forgetting Unity3D? It might only be one engine but it’s a juggernaut in the industry
- banachtarski 9y agoC# is actually "Unity script" and compiles to C++. It even bundles its own C++ garbage collector. It's terrible. Not being able to write native code is a tremendous weakness of the engine. Not to mention that since you're writing a "fake" C#, you don't get the full runtime (can't use reflection, can't use coalescing null features, etc).
- pjmlp 9y agoThey are in the process of adopting .NET 4.6. IL2CPP is no different from CFront.
- BoorishBears 9y agoPardon my French but you’re talking out of your ass. Unityscript is the Js clone they have/had (they’ve been pushing for C# to be the main language). You can use null coalescing. You can use all of Reflection bar platform restrictions on AOT ie. iOS (don’t recommend it in a game though...) You can use a async/await. You’re writing “real” C# with Unity, either with a custom Mono runtime or IL2CPP, neither of which turns your C# into “fake” C# And Unity3D is “terrible” enough to serve 700 million players.
- banachtarski 9y agoLol I just opened unity, and can't use null coalescing. I say unity script because it all compiles down to the same IL. Where did I say you can't use async/await. It's not "real" C# in the sense that you don't get the .Net runtime.
- BoorishBears 9y agoUpdate your Unity3D version and learn how to set your .NET runtime. Then learn the settings and limitations for your target platform. Just because you don’t know how to use Unity doesn’t make it doesn’t have features it does.
- banachtarski 9y agoYes it's on the latest version and you can't set the runtime when targeting certain platforms. Look, just because I abhor Unity doesn't mean you have to take it personally.
- BoorishBears 9y agoI don’t care if you abhor Unity, I just particularly dislike FUD on HN. People tend to hold what people write in a slightly higher light and assume a professional is speaking... not a guy who thinks “you need the newest version” is a disqualification for a feature list.
- btschaegg 9y ago...and is often used by translating IL code to C++, if I remember a recent cppcast episode correctly.
- pjmlp 9y agoYes, but that is an implementation detail. Unity devs could have gone full way and implemented a compiler backend themselves. Instead they decided to take advantage of the SDK present in every target platform they support. C++ once upon a time, also got compiled by generating C code.
- skrebbel 9y agoNah, I was just wrong about gamedev. I genuinely believed that all modern engines were mostly programmed in C# but people in this thread corrected me. It's just the game logic scripting.
- geezerjay 9y ago> Nah, I was just wrong about gamedev. Sorry, you were pretty much wrong in every claim. None of the options you've mentioned are actually stable with the exception of C#, which you already acknowledged that were wrong to mention.
- skrebbel 9y ago> We're supposed to interpret other comments in the most charitable way, but a charitable interpetation is not at all possible when one says that C# is a usable solution for systems and embedded programming, that Nim is mature, or go is used in games and is a good idea to use for embedded. Then don't misquote me. I didn't say any of that, except perhaps implying that Nim is mature. Ok right, and Go is great for embedded. I worked in embedded systems for years. 80% of the software ran on little arm boards that ran a decent OS (eg QNX, Linux, etc). Go would've saved so much trouble there. There's this weird HN filter bubble attitude that if it's more than 20MHz or does not ship with a 15 year old GCC fork, then it's not embedded, but that's bullshit. Go is a fantastic option for a very large amount of embedded software, and I'd wager what's left after that is perfectly served by tiny C programs running on little atmels. I explicitly singled out C# for gamedev. Look, I'm trying to make a general argument that a few large still-good legacy libraries (such as Qt) are the only reason C++ is still standing. I must admit it feels a little like you're trying to misunderstand me on purpose because you don't like the message.
- jjoonathan 9y agoI'd say the term "weird filter bubble" fits your ideas of embedded -- attiny or running linux, with nothing in between -- far better than it fits the HN idea of embedded.