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I completely get the purpose and benefit of Docker. More and more though I'm becoming convinced that for many settings and problems Docker actually creates more

I completely get the purpose and benefit of Docker. More and more though I'm becoming convinced that for many settings and problems Docker actually creates more problems and meaningless ritual because Docker rapidly is becoming the standard way of deploying software with hardly anyone asking about the reasons anymore. Docker recreates many of the benefits the Java platform has had from the start (in addition to some other aspects but that's the main selling pont). So, if you have a non-Java application Docker might indeed be a worthwhile choice. The thing is, even with Java platform-independence and deployment standardization for web apps / SaaS-type applications has always been a minor selling point. Those features are certainly important if you need to rapidly provision and scale your application on many different machines in a distributed environment you don't completely control. In reality, for many applications today this simply isn't the case though. The main motivator behind that feature after all was the concept of desktop applications that are deployed to each user individually. So, with Docker we now indiscriminately add an additional layer of complexity on top of existing applications regardless of the actual problems this might solve.

adrianN 9y ago
I like Docker because it makes it more explicit what dependencies my software has. Most Dockerfiles start with an apt-get update, but I prefer specifying the exact versions of the packages to install. This way I notice changes before they break my stuff.
k__ 9y ago
Isn't the selling point more about the dev perspective? The problem is more about your dev machine being different from your deployment machine. Not your deployment machines are all different.
thamizhan2611 9y ago
> So, with Docker we now indiscriminately add an additional layer of complexity on top of existing applications regardless of the actual problems this might solve. I agree that it adds an extra layer of complexity but it also provides a lot of things out of the box (like isolation, separation of concerns, platform agnostic deployments, reproducability and lot more) which makes the life of a developer so easy. If he wants to deploy his application, instead of SSHing into the server, installing the dependency, managing the lifecycle of his application. He just needs to dockerize his application and rest assured that it will run irrespective of the platform on which it is put to run as long as it has docker running. I think what it boils down to is what you expect a tool to do and if it really solves some hard hitting problems you have with your development life and took away your nightmares then it is totally fine to invest in it and chill.
- BjoernKW 9y ago
  The problem lies with the "just needs to dockerize his application" part. These days I see many developers regularly servicing Docker containers where they rather should be adding value to the product they're creating. It almost seems as if Docker has become an end in itself rather than just a means. In some ways with Docker you also only move concerns from one layer to another. While in the past you had to manage dependencies on the target machine you now have to manage Docker dependencies and environments on that machine on top of the dependency management for your application.
  - thamizhan2611 9y ago
    Fair point. Again it is the call that the developer has to take depending upon certain parameters. If he is shipping multiple applications built with Python with one requiring Python 2.7 and the other requiring Python 3.4. He has to somehow make sure that both the application will run peacefully together or he can just create two docker images on his machine one contains Python2.7 installed and the other contains Python 3.0 installed and deploy it the docker way without any hassle. At the end of the day it is the call he has to take depending upon how much time each of the flow is going to consume and which one makes his life easy.

adrianN 9y ago

I like Docker because it makes it more explicit what dependencies my software has. Most Dockerfiles start with an apt-get update, but I prefer specifying the exact versions of the packages to install. This way I notice changes before they break my stuff.

k__ 9y ago

Isn't the selling point more about the dev perspective? The problem is more about your dev machine being different from your deployment machine. Not your deployment machines are all different.

thamizhan2611 9y ago

> So, with Docker we now indiscriminately add an additional layer of complexity on top of existing applications regardless of the actual problems this might solve. I agree that it adds an extra layer of complexity but it also provides a lot of things out of the box (like isolation, separation of concerns, platform agnostic deployments, reproducability and lot more) which makes the life of a developer so easy. If he wants to deploy his application, instead of SSHing into the server, installing the dependency, managing the lifecycle of his application. He just needs to dockerize his application and rest assured that it will run irrespective of the platform on which it is put to run as long as it has docker running. I think what it boils down to is what you expect a tool to do and if it really solves some hard hitting problems you have with your development life and took away your nightmares then it is totally fine to invest in it and chill.

BjoernKW 9y ago
The problem lies with the "just needs to dockerize his application" part. These days I see many developers regularly servicing Docker containers where they rather should be adding value to the product they're creating. It almost seems as if Docker has become an end in itself rather than just a means. In some ways with Docker you also only move concerns from one layer to another. While in the past you had to manage dependencies on the target machine you now have to manage Docker dependencies and environments on that machine on top of the dependency management for your application.
- thamizhan2611 9y ago
  Fair point. Again it is the call that the developer has to take depending upon certain parameters. If he is shipping multiple applications built with Python with one requiring Python 2.7 and the other requiring Python 3.4. He has to somehow make sure that both the application will run peacefully together or he can just create two docker images on his machine one contains Python2.7 installed and the other contains Python 3.0 installed and deploy it the docker way without any hassle. At the end of the day it is the call he has to take depending upon how much time each of the flow is going to consume and which one makes his life easy.