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All these reports have the feelings of small rumblings or rumors of purges and famines that leaked out of the Soviet Union in the 30’s. The dismissal of all of

All these reports have the feelings of small rumblings or rumors of purges and famines that leaked out of the Soviet Union in the 30’s. The dismissal of all of them due to China’s size and growth really strengthens the analogy too. Privacy is important because basically we all are, at least once a day, committing some kind of crime. I mean the definition for loitering is so broad that alone gets most people. The ad-tech companies of the world think they are criticized now, but they have no idea the judgment history will render for some of the attitudes and practices that have been promoted regarding data and privacy. Some of this stuff is as naive as Charles Lindbergh helping the Luftwaffe because he believed airplanes would connect all the peoples of the world and promote global peace. What is it with “connecting people” and really terrible ideas? All totalitarian governments, not being very innovative, have thrived off of inventions that have been developed elsewhere and have been bearable, and then mutated into unrecognizable monsters under them.

meri_dian 9y ago
You yourself are admitting that terrible evil can be done by governments without any of the advanced technology that some fret over. It's not about the technology. It's about the will of the government. Think about all the horrendous evils rendered upon the citizenry of early nations and empires in the distant past. No advanced technology there. Just a twisted view of right and wrong. What this tells us is that regardless of what technology is available, a good government will do good, and an evil government will do evil. That really goes for any entity. You name it.
- hrktb 9y ago
  Sure it’s about the will of the gorvening body. Then you’ll have to agree a good bunch of current western societies have governments willing to do evil or let evil be done for a reason or another. Nothing is black and white, but the current trends about how people are equaly treated and human life is valued is still in the darker greys in my opinion.
- Bucephalus355 9y ago
  Ok you’re definitely right with the technology thing not being an issue to “govs killing lots of people”. Let me say that currently, because the technologies are new, not well understood, and not regulated by any kind of international treaty or norms (even national regulations sometimes) they can and will be abused in ways that are hard for other countries to protest against in a credible manner. In China during The Great Famine under Mao, 50 million people died. I know numbers and history can seem so distant, but that’s more than the number of people who died in WWI and near the low end of estimates for WWII (especially the early estimates). It was insanity on a level no society has ever perpetuated. A good example of this was that 40% of all structures were torn down during this period. Incredible. It’s all probably worse than we know too due to a lack of records and archives that individuals have access too. The National Book Award winner this year was about Russian totalitarianism called “The Future is History”. If this is true, the future is a much worse place for the Chinese people.
- wu-ikkyu 9y ago
  Why are you so eager to ignore the effects of technology? You'll notice in history that the biggest wars/massacres were committed with revolutionary technologies.
- rebuilder 9y ago
  I worry that technology can leave no room for anything except dystopias. For example, it seems privacy is going to become a thing of the past, and there's little we can do about it short of smashing the looms.
drawkbox 9y ago
> Privacy is important because basically we all are, at least once a day, committing some kind of crime. I think that is the big issue we will see and have seen recently. Surveillance tools are better than ever in history. Many times, laws were created as deterrents to some behavior, that maybe shouldn't be laws, because it wasn't easy to nab everyone doing it. Back then cops, judges and more weren't as locked into forced outcomes i.e. three strikes, mandatory minimums etc and there was more humanity in corrections at that level. Now that we have surveillance at this level and going up, we need to remove the criminalization of certain things otherwise everyone will be locked up. Moral laws or making illegal non-violent/no civil violations actions will not work in mass surveillance, only laws that are violent and infringe on civil rights of others should remain. An example might be the criminalization of drugs or old laws on the books. If we had arrested everyone that used cannabis half the country at least would have a record. With surveillance this high and going up, we MUST decriminalize and re-evaluate every law. The problem is our 'corrections' and law enforcement, is that both have turned predatory along with the advancements in technology that have been used to erode privacy.
- carlmr 9y ago
  >An example might be the criminalization of drugs or old laws on the books. If we had arrested everyone that used cannabis half the country at least would have a record. If everyone has a record, no one has a record.
  - smackay 9y ago
    Really? If everyone has a record then they can be detained whenever the authorities feel like it.
    - subsubsub 9y ago
      Do governments who use this kind of 'selective justice' really need the pretext of an actual law being broken? I think what carlmr is saying is quite relevant to more democratic countries.
charlysl 9y ago
Privacy is about individual freedom, and in all societies there is a tradeoff between this and social cohesion. True liberalism aspires to achieve a stable society with minimal encroachment on personal freedom.
dalbasal 9y ago
"What is it with “connecting people” and really terrible ideas?" Hehe, nice framing. I'd say the answer is "power." Collectivising, aggregating and connecting people yields power, new abilities that exist as a product of increased network size. Yuval Noah Harari (grand narrative historian) identifies this network effect as the defining characteristic of human progress. Increased size of a functional group. The bottlenecks are travel and (more importantly) communication. To him, the difference between modern palaeolithic sapiens and archaic humans (including archaic sapiens chronospecies) is "fictions:" abstract concepts like kingship, nationhood, religion, law, money and such that allow cooperation between strange individuals. Airplanes yielded similar power. Increasing cooperative group size and the quality of that cooperation yields power, a lot of it. Air travel improved group size and quality. You can send a letter, visit or bomb places 1,000 km away within an hour. European ships allowed the subjagation of foreign places, transcontinental trade and centralised global administration.

meri_dian 9y ago

You yourself are admitting that terrible evil can be done by governments without any of the advanced technology that some fret over. It's not about the technology. It's about the will of the government. Think about all the horrendous evils rendered upon the citizenry of early nations and empires in the distant past. No advanced technology there. Just a twisted view of right and wrong. What this tells us is that regardless of what technology is available, a good government will do good, and an evil government will do evil. That really goes for any entity. You name it.

hrktb 9y ago
Sure it’s about the will of the gorvening body. Then you’ll have to agree a good bunch of current western societies have governments willing to do evil or let evil be done for a reason or another. Nothing is black and white, but the current trends about how people are equaly treated and human life is valued is still in the darker greys in my opinion.
Bucephalus355 9y ago
Ok you’re definitely right with the technology thing not being an issue to “govs killing lots of people”. Let me say that currently, because the technologies are new, not well understood, and not regulated by any kind of international treaty or norms (even national regulations sometimes) they can and will be abused in ways that are hard for other countries to protest against in a credible manner. In China during The Great Famine under Mao, 50 million people died. I know numbers and history can seem so distant, but that’s more than the number of people who died in WWI and near the low end of estimates for WWII (especially the early estimates). It was insanity on a level no society has ever perpetuated. A good example of this was that 40% of all structures were torn down during this period. Incredible. It’s all probably worse than we know too due to a lack of records and archives that individuals have access too. The National Book Award winner this year was about Russian totalitarianism called “The Future is History”. If this is true, the future is a much worse place for the Chinese people.
wu-ikkyu 9y ago
Why are you so eager to ignore the effects of technology? You'll notice in history that the biggest wars/massacres were committed with revolutionary technologies.
rebuilder 9y ago
I worry that technology can leave no room for anything except dystopias. For example, it seems privacy is going to become a thing of the past, and there's little we can do about it short of smashing the looms.

drawkbox 9y ago

> Privacy is important because basically we all are, at least once a day, committing some kind of crime. I think that is the big issue we will see and have seen recently. Surveillance tools are better than ever in history. Many times, laws were created as deterrents to some behavior, that maybe shouldn't be laws, because it wasn't easy to nab everyone doing it. Back then cops, judges and more weren't as locked into forced outcomes i.e. three strikes, mandatory minimums etc and there was more humanity in corrections at that level. Now that we have surveillance at this level and going up, we need to remove the criminalization of certain things otherwise everyone will be locked up. Moral laws or making illegal non-violent/no civil violations actions will not work in mass surveillance, only laws that are violent and infringe on civil rights of others should remain. An example might be the criminalization of drugs or old laws on the books. If we had arrested everyone that used cannabis half the country at least would have a record. With surveillance this high and going up, we MUST decriminalize and re-evaluate every law. The problem is our 'corrections' and law enforcement, is that both have turned predatory along with the advancements in technology that have been used to erode privacy.

carlmr 9y ago
>An example might be the criminalization of drugs or old laws on the books. If we had arrested everyone that used cannabis half the country at least would have a record. If everyone has a record, no one has a record.
- smackay 9y ago
  Really? If everyone has a record then they can be detained whenever the authorities feel like it.
  - subsubsub 9y ago
    Do governments who use this kind of 'selective justice' really need the pretext of an actual law being broken? I think what carlmr is saying is quite relevant to more democratic countries.

charlysl 9y ago

Privacy is about individual freedom, and in all societies there is a tradeoff between this and social cohesion. True liberalism aspires to achieve a stable society with minimal encroachment on personal freedom.

dalbasal 9y ago

"What is it with “connecting people” and really terrible ideas?" Hehe, nice framing. I'd say the answer is "power." Collectivising, aggregating and connecting people yields power, new abilities that exist as a product of increased network size. Yuval Noah Harari (grand narrative historian) identifies this network effect as the defining characteristic of human progress. Increased size of a functional group. The bottlenecks are travel and (more importantly) communication. To him, the difference between modern palaeolithic sapiens and archaic humans (including archaic sapiens chronospecies) is "fictions:" abstract concepts like kingship, nationhood, religion, law, money and such that allow cooperation between strange individuals. Airplanes yielded similar power. Increasing cooperative group size and the quality of that cooperation yields power, a lot of it. Air travel improved group size and quality. You can send a letter, visit or bomb places 1,000 km away within an hour. European ships allowed the subjagation of foreign places, transcontinental trade and centralised global administration.