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I think we romanticize "being on the lamb". For the 99.999% of the time, if someone is a "wanted man", it's much better for society if he is apprehended. I do

I think we romanticize "being on the lamb". For the 99.999% of the time, if someone is a "wanted man", it's much better for society if he is apprehended. I don't see this as a threat. If, however, every innocent person were tracked, and crimes were generated based on observations ( like souped up red-light cameras for every imaginable crime ), and charges were created automatically ( and algorithmically ), that would suck. Or, it would make us realize most laws suck and we'd remove them.

kristofferR 9y ago
Most people in the US are wanted for stupid stuff, like not being able to pay their parking fines.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  It gets worse: many are essentially wanted for being the wrong skin color. A lot of laws disproportionately impact people of color. AKA systemic racism. Downvoting it doesn't make it not true. See this article for example: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-theft-racial-justice https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-the...
- paulie_a 9y ago
  Parking fines are generally on the car, not a person
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    Citation? Because that doesn't fit my understanding.
  - knowThySelfx 9y ago
    So the car will pay the fine?
    - paulie_a 9y ago
      The owner will, if they would like the car to be legal to drive with updated license plates. It is a minor but important distinction. I can't speak directly that no states in the US operate differently. but as far as I know, you don't become a wanted person for parking tickets.
jorblumesea 9y ago
You realize this is China, the same government that literally ground their citizens to a paste with tanks? Idk why everyone is talking about this in such impartial terms, this is a totalitarian state that has no concept of civil liberties. The idea that this is going to be used just for mere criminals is a pipe dream. Unless you classify criminals as those who disagree with the CPC. This is going to be used to repress the population, without a doubt.
- danschumann 9y ago
  "The same government that..." -- Hmm, I think government is comprised of people, and the people that did that have likely aged out. This government is like the son or daughter of that government. And this government has realized many free market principles (and certainly many other lessons). It's not the same, nor totally different. Either way, I have to talk about it impartially, as if I were contemplating its use in the states.
  - anthonyleecook 9y ago
    There are quite a few ways this government is similar....cases in point => China 'holding at least 120,000 Uighurs in re-education camps' https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-120000-muslim-uighurs-held-in-chinese-re-education-camps-report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-12000... Authoritarian regimes shroud their darkest features in euphemism. So it is with China’s “residential surveillance at a designated location.” https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/opinion/in-china-the-brutality-of-house-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/opinion/in-china-the-brut... Huang Shike was arrested in 2016 in Xinjiang province, three months after he formed a discussion group about Muslim worship on the messaging app WeChat, according to the official website China Judgments Online https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-jails-muslim-huang-shike-teaching-islam-online-wechat-groups/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-jails-muslim-huang-shike-...
  - jorblumesea 9y ago
    China is a totalitarian state with lip service to the free market. No one believes China has any of the freedoms it espouses. It's about as "free market" as a ponzi scheme with zero transparency into its markets, debt, companies, etc. Generation means nothing because they select for true believers. The same people crushing people with tanks got promotions and are now running the government. Like...you're so far off from reality idk what to say :(
wonder_er 9y ago
I can't help but disagree with your 99.999% assessment. I feel like at best it might be 50%. At which point, it's horrible for society to be rolling the dice on every person in prison, if they should be there or not. I would refer you to the Innocence Project [0] for a useful exposition of wrongful convictions, and error rates therein. [0] https://www.innocenceproject.org/cases/ https://www.innocenceproject.org/cases/
- danschumann 9y ago
  I don't know, I feel like neighborhoods where no one has outstanding warrants would be more desirable than neighborhoods with many.
  - deegles 9y ago
    What if turns out those neighborhoods paid to have no convictions?
  - kahnjw 9y ago
    Have you heard of the precision/recall tradeoff?
  - thatcat 9y ago
    You're making a false comparision between none and many when it seems like a few would be a much nicer place to live after accounting for civil offenses and the points made by parent. This technology puts a human face to technological surveillance, there has to be some minimum psychological cost for everyone there which may outweigh the claimed benefits.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - analog31 9y ago
    Do we even know what an "outstanding warrant" consists of in China? Granted, I may be naieve about what it represents in the US, but I hope it's something that comes from a reasonably transparent and fair process. In a totalitarian state, it could mean something else. The question becomes: Who is being rounded up, and why? This seems more important than the specific technology used. I happen to live in a neighborhood where the very presence of a police officer would attract notice.
T_D_K 9y ago
From the article: "The app brings up the (scanned person's) vital information, including name, ethnicity, gender and address (..), the address of the hotel where they are staying and information related to their internet usage." So, yes, every person is tracked.

kristofferR 9y ago

Most people in the US are wanted for stupid stuff, like not being able to pay their parking fines.

DoreenMichele 9y ago
It gets worse: many are essentially wanted for being the wrong skin color. A lot of laws disproportionately impact people of color. AKA systemic racism. Downvoting it doesn't make it not true. See this article for example: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-theft-racial-justice https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-the...
paulie_a 9y ago
Parking fines are generally on the car, not a person
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  Citation? Because that doesn't fit my understanding.
- knowThySelfx 9y ago
  So the car will pay the fine?
  - paulie_a 9y ago
    The owner will, if they would like the car to be legal to drive with updated license plates. It is a minor but important distinction. I can't speak directly that no states in the US operate differently. but as far as I know, you don't become a wanted person for parking tickets.

jorblumesea 9y ago

You realize this is China, the same government that literally ground their citizens to a paste with tanks? Idk why everyone is talking about this in such impartial terms, this is a totalitarian state that has no concept of civil liberties. The idea that this is going to be used just for mere criminals is a pipe dream. Unless you classify criminals as those who disagree with the CPC. This is going to be used to repress the population, without a doubt.

danschumann 9y ago
"The same government that..." -- Hmm, I think government is comprised of people, and the people that did that have likely aged out. This government is like the son or daughter of that government. And this government has realized many free market principles (and certainly many other lessons). It's not the same, nor totally different. Either way, I have to talk about it impartially, as if I were contemplating its use in the states.
- anthonyleecook 9y ago
  There are quite a few ways this government is similar....cases in point => China 'holding at least 120,000 Uighurs in re-education camps' https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-120000-muslim-uighurs-held-in-chinese-re-education-camps-report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-12000... Authoritarian regimes shroud their darkest features in euphemism. So it is with China’s “residential surveillance at a designated location.” https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/opinion/in-china-the-brutality-of-house-arrest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/opinion/in-china-the-brut... Huang Shike was arrested in 2016 in Xinjiang province, three months after he formed a discussion group about Muslim worship on the messaging app WeChat, according to the official website China Judgments Online https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-jails-muslim-huang-shike-teaching-islam-online-wechat-groups/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-jails-muslim-huang-shike-...
- jorblumesea 9y ago
  China is a totalitarian state with lip service to the free market. No one believes China has any of the freedoms it espouses. It's about as "free market" as a ponzi scheme with zero transparency into its markets, debt, companies, etc. Generation means nothing because they select for true believers. The same people crushing people with tanks got promotions and are now running the government. Like...you're so far off from reality idk what to say :(

wonder_er 9y ago

I can't help but disagree with your 99.999% assessment. I feel like at best it might be 50%. At which point, it's horrible for society to be rolling the dice on every person in prison, if they should be there or not. I would refer you to the Innocence Project [0] for a useful exposition of wrongful convictions, and error rates therein. [0] https://www.innocenceproject.org/cases/ https://www.innocenceproject.org/cases/

danschumann 9y ago
I don't know, I feel like neighborhoods where no one has outstanding warrants would be more desirable than neighborhoods with many.
- deegles 9y ago
  What if turns out those neighborhoods paid to have no convictions?
- kahnjw 9y ago
  Have you heard of the precision/recall tradeoff?
- thatcat 9y ago
  You're making a false comparision between none and many when it seems like a few would be a much nicer place to live after accounting for civil offenses and the points made by parent. This technology puts a human face to technological surveillance, there has to be some minimum psychological cost for everyone there which may outweigh the claimed benefits.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- analog31 9y ago
  Do we even know what an "outstanding warrant" consists of in China? Granted, I may be naieve about what it represents in the US, but I hope it's something that comes from a reasonably transparent and fair process. In a totalitarian state, it could mean something else. The question becomes: Who is being rounded up, and why? This seems more important than the specific technology used. I happen to live in a neighborhood where the very presence of a police officer would attract notice.

T_D_K 9y ago

From the article: "The app brings up the (scanned person's) vital information, including name, ethnicity, gender and address (..), the address of the hotel where they are staying and information related to their internet usage." So, yes, every person is tracked.