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North Korea’s Hacker Army

65 points by malloryerik 9y ago

rando444 9y ago
This article to me is just more evidence that North Korea was not behind the Sony hack and possibly other high-profile attacks attributed to them. I mean on the Sony end you have something requiring extreme sophistication and technical knowledge to pull something like that off.. and this article depicts North Korean hackers exactly how you picture them. Barely owning computers, not having enough to survive themselves, poorly organized, and grinding video games and selling pirated software as a means to make ends meet. These two parallel depictions of the same group never seem to cross except in the opening paragraphs of articles where the reader is meant to assume that these groups are one in the same.
- beezischillin 9y ago
  Yeah, I mean.. the WannaCry-thing wasn't proven to be North Korean either as far as I know...
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    Multiple private companies have pointed to DPRK as the source, and several government agencies claim to have direct evidence.
- realusername 9y ago
  I never bought into the North Korean elite hackers for this reason, the country has already a lot of technological issues at the moment and having an hacker army in these conditions would be quite a feat.
  - klibertp 9y ago
    I don't know, on the one hand, NK is objectively behind other nations, but on the other hand, it's still a nation-state, with millions of subjects and complete freedom in shaping their policies. They did manage to build something resembling nuclear weapon without help from outside...
    - realusername 9y ago
      Yes indeed but it took them a very long time to build some and we have a lot of traces of NK trying to get intelligence data about nuclear weapons, on the other hand, I've never seen anything which could indicate that they built a proper hacking army (not just an army of scammers to get more money).
      - lern_too_spel 9y ago
        > I've never seen anything which could indicate that they built a proper hacking army Google for Bureau 121 and 91 Office. Just because this article is about a programmer who mostly cracked software doesn't mean that other programmers with other focus areas don't exist.
      - Can_Not 9y ago
        Could thier army not be composed of 1,000 technically inclined cyber-scammers and 10 "proper hackers"?
    - toomanybeersies 9y ago
      They had help from Pakistan at the start of the nuclear program.
  - chatmasta 9y ago
    They can pay foreign nationals to hack for them.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  What about the Sony hack required extreme sophistication? The GoP's original emails were ignored because they seemed like people who didn't know what they were doing. The source IPs were from a North Korean business in China. The malware matched what had previously only been used against South Korean banks, also from North Korean IPs. The reason the North Korean source IPs were seen accessing GoP's Facebook page and the compromised systems was due to sloppiness on the part of the attacker. What motive does anyone else have to demand either that The Interview not be released or that the ending be modified so that Kim's death wasn't "too happy?"
  - crdoconnor 9y ago
    >What other motive do you have for a Sony hack where the perpetrators demand either that The Interview not be released or that the ending be modified so that Kim's death wasn't "too happy?" That Lulzsec are engaged in a game of misdirection? I've never found "Malware X was used in attack Y" or "it came from these IP addresses owned by Z" to ever be a convincing argument for attribution. Whereas I'm fairly easily convinced that the party responsible for the hack would prefer it if the FBI believes that the real attacker is outside of their jurisdiction so they don't come knocking on their door. The fact that North Korea is everybody's favourite bogeyman from the CIA down makes them a convenient mark. North Korea also has a habit of admitting to and bragging about military attacks whereas this time they just said "wasn't us, good job though guys". I'm not entirely sure what motive they'd have for denying the fact that they revealed a bunch of movie star salaries when most people think it was them anyhow.
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago
      > North Korea also has a habit of admitting to and bragging about military attacks They still claim no involvement in the death of Kim Jong Nam and the destruction of Korean Air Flight 858. You're confusing overt military actions with covert actions against civilian targets. Of course they will loudly boast about the former. Boasting about computer attacks that can help attribute other covert attacks is too stupid even for DPRK. > I've never found "Malware X was used in attack Y" or "it came from these IP addresses owned by Z" to ever be a convincing argument for attribution. That's just the publicly released evidence, which is enough to draw a conclusion. You think somebody who is doing it for the lulz wouldn't then brag about doing it for the lulz on IRC? That happens every other time, which is one reason why your explanation is less plausible.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
It's almost comical the different ways that North Korea tries to make money. Kim Jong Un is almost like a comic supervillain with his own country. Among other things, they engage in: * Manufacturing methamphetamine https://www.talkingdrugs.org/north-korea-increasing-crystal-meth-production-to-economic-sanctions https://www.talkingdrugs.org/north-korea-increasing-crystal-... * Fake money https://news.vice.com/article/north-koreas-counterfeit-benjamins-have-vanished https://news.vice.com/article/north-koreas-counterfeit-benja... * Counterfeit cigarettes and pharmaceuticals * People trafficking * A restaurant chain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_(restaurant_chain) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_(restaurant_chain) * Statues for African dictators: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35569277 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35569277 Their embassies are also expected to make a profit and sustain themselves, while sending money home. The North Korean Embassy in Pakistan was suspected to be bootlegging alcohol: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-northkorea-insight/in-pakistan-north-korean-diplomats-alcohol-stash-raises-bootlegging-suspicions-idUSKBN1D80XG https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-northkorea-insig... They rent out embassy owned land for a youth hostel in Berlin: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/10/05/germany-is-struggling-to-shut-down-a-hostel-funding-north-korea-the-hostel-is-fighting-back/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/10/05... They also smuggle ivory in Africa: https://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21729543-rhino-horn-and-ivory-smuggling-help-fund-regime-pyongyang-africa https://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/217295... It's almost comical. The North Korean regime is completely morally bankrupt.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Sanctions shut them out of the legitimate economy. Probably easiest make money in the black market for illegal goods than in the black market for goods everyone else can sell legally.
- yakitori 9y ago
  That's pretty much how most countries made money. Opium wars, slave trade, etc.
jpelecanos 9y ago
Who are those programmers's handler? Is it Bureau 121 of the Reconnaissance General Bureau?

65 points by malloryerik 9y ago

This article to me is just more evidence that North Korea was not behind the Sony hack and possibly other high-profile attacks attributed to them. I mean on the Sony end you have something requiring extreme sophistication and technical knowledge to pull something like that off.. and this article depicts North Korean hackers exactly how you picture them. Barely owning computers, not having enough to survive themselves, poorly organized, and grinding video games and selling pirated software as a means to make ends meet. These two parallel depictions of the same group never seem to cross except in the opening paragraphs of articles where the reader is meant to assume that these groups are one in the same.

beezischillin 9y ago
Yeah, I mean.. the WannaCry-thing wasn't proven to be North Korean either as far as I know...
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Multiple private companies have pointed to DPRK as the source, and several government agencies claim to have direct evidence.
realusername 9y ago
I never bought into the North Korean elite hackers for this reason, the country has already a lot of technological issues at the moment and having an hacker army in these conditions would be quite a feat.
- klibertp 9y ago
  I don't know, on the one hand, NK is objectively behind other nations, but on the other hand, it's still a nation-state, with millions of subjects and complete freedom in shaping their policies. They did manage to build something resembling nuclear weapon without help from outside...
  - realusername 9y ago
    Yes indeed but it took them a very long time to build some and we have a lot of traces of NK trying to get intelligence data about nuclear weapons, on the other hand, I've never seen anything which could indicate that they built a proper hacking army (not just an army of scammers to get more money).
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago
      > I've never seen anything which could indicate that they built a proper hacking army Google for Bureau 121 and 91 Office. Just because this article is about a programmer who mostly cracked software doesn't mean that other programmers with other focus areas don't exist.
    - Can_Not 9y ago
      Could thier army not be composed of 1,000 technically inclined cyber-scammers and 10 "proper hackers"?
  - toomanybeersies 9y ago
    They had help from Pakistan at the start of the nuclear program.
- chatmasta 9y ago
  They can pay foreign nationals to hack for them.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
lern_too_spel 9y ago
What about the Sony hack required extreme sophistication? The GoP's original emails were ignored because they seemed like people who didn't know what they were doing. The source IPs were from a North Korean business in China. The malware matched what had previously only been used against South Korean banks, also from North Korean IPs. The reason the North Korean source IPs were seen accessing GoP's Facebook page and the compromised systems was due to sloppiness on the part of the attacker. What motive does anyone else have to demand either that The Interview not be released or that the ending be modified so that Kim's death wasn't "too happy?"
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  >What other motive do you have for a Sony hack where the perpetrators demand either that The Interview not be released or that the ending be modified so that Kim's death wasn't "too happy?" That Lulzsec are engaged in a game of misdirection? I've never found "Malware X was used in attack Y" or "it came from these IP addresses owned by Z" to ever be a convincing argument for attribution. Whereas I'm fairly easily convinced that the party responsible for the hack would prefer it if the FBI believes that the real attacker is outside of their jurisdiction so they don't come knocking on their door. The fact that North Korea is everybody's favourite bogeyman from the CIA down makes them a convenient mark. North Korea also has a habit of admitting to and bragging about military attacks whereas this time they just said "wasn't us, good job though guys". I'm not entirely sure what motive they'd have for denying the fact that they revealed a bunch of movie star salaries when most people think it was them anyhow.
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    > North Korea also has a habit of admitting to and bragging about military attacks They still claim no involvement in the death of Kim Jong Nam and the destruction of Korean Air Flight 858. You're confusing overt military actions with covert actions against civilian targets. Of course they will loudly boast about the former. Boasting about computer attacks that can help attribute other covert attacks is too stupid even for DPRK. > I've never found "Malware X was used in attack Y" or "it came from these IP addresses owned by Z" to ever be a convincing argument for attribution. That's just the publicly released evidence, which is enough to draw a conclusion. You think somebody who is doing it for the lulz wouldn't then brag about doing it for the lulz on IRC? That happens every other time, which is one reason why your explanation is less plausible.

toomanybeersies 9y ago

It's almost comical the different ways that North Korea tries to make money. Kim Jong Un is almost like a comic supervillain with his own country. Among other things, they engage in: * Manufacturing methamphetamine https://www.talkingdrugs.org/north-korea-increasing-crystal-meth-production-to-economic-sanctions https://www.talkingdrugs.org/north-korea-increasing-crystal-... * Fake money https://news.vice.com/article/north-koreas-counterfeit-benjamins-have-vanished https://news.vice.com/article/north-koreas-counterfeit-benja... * Counterfeit cigarettes and pharmaceuticals * People trafficking * A restaurant chain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_(restaurant_chain) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_(restaurant_chain) * Statues for African dictators: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35569277 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35569277 Their embassies are also expected to make a profit and sustain themselves, while sending money home. The North Korean Embassy in Pakistan was suspected to be bootlegging alcohol: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-northkorea-insight/in-pakistan-north-korean-diplomats-alcohol-stash-raises-bootlegging-suspicions-idUSKBN1D80XG https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-northkorea-insig... They rent out embassy owned land for a youth hostel in Berlin: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/10/05/germany-is-struggling-to-shut-down-a-hostel-funding-north-korea-the-hostel-is-fighting-back/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/10/05... They also smuggle ivory in Africa: https://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21729543-rhino-horn-and-ivory-smuggling-help-fund-regime-pyongyang-africa https://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/217295... It's almost comical. The North Korean regime is completely morally bankrupt.

closeparen 9y ago
Sanctions shut them out of the legitimate economy. Probably easiest make money in the black market for illegal goods than in the black market for goods everyone else can sell legally.
yakitori 9y ago
That's pretty much how most countries made money. Opium wars, slave trade, etc.

jpelecanos 9y ago

Who are those programmers's handler? Is it Bureau 121 of the Reconnaissance General Bureau?