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So the service can be unbiased, but the society/system it exists in will still be biased.

neveroffensive 9y ago
> but the society/system it exists in will still be biased Is biased even the right word here? Maybe I'm just nit-picking, but bias implies some level of intention IMHO. The "bias" here is really just the coincidental effects of nature. I'd say it's more like, "So the service can be unbiased, but trends will inevitably emerge from natural arbitrary properties of the system".
malchow 9y ago
My read of the study is that it more or less proves the opposite: the wage gap is the result of women having such powerfully different preferences that it shows up even when we know discrimination is impossible.
- pbiggar 9y ago
  You are letting my point sail over you. How do women come to those "powerfully different preferences"? Do we think that all women got together and decided to only drive at less valuable times? Or is it more likely that there are systemic/societal reasons why women as a group pick less-valuable times to drive?
  - dang 9y ago
    > You are letting my point sail over you. Please edit such swipes out of your comments here. Besides crossing into incivility, they add no information and make divisive topics even more divisive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - Geeek 9y ago
    Can it be systemic yet not societal? Like biological origins?
    - pbiggar 9y ago
      Yeah, I've heard women are biologically programmed to prefer earning less money. JFC, listen to yourself...
      - klipt 9y ago
        Well obviously if the choices were simply "Push button A to get money, or push button B to get more money" then everyone would push button B. But in reality there are other factors. Like "button B has a slightly higher chance of injuring you". Or "button B can only be pushed late at night". It's entirely possible that people are biologically programmed to have different risk/effort/reward preference curves.
        pbiggar 9y ago
        You've hit the nail on the head with "button B can only be pushed at night". If we set up society such that it's riskier for one group to access good earning potential, basically the definition of systemic bias. To be more concrete here, if it's unsafe for women to drive uber at 2am on a Friday night because of the risk of assault, that's systemic bias (and it should be fixed).
        klipt 9y ago
        I don't know about violence in Ubers specifically, but in general statistically men are more likely to be the victim of violent attacks than women. If men are simply more willing to face those risks for money than women, how do you fix that (apart from trivial theoretical solutions like "remove all violence")?
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        olleromam91 9y ago
        If there were no incentive to do the riskier, arguably more critical jobs...then nobody would do them.
sgc 9y ago
So location, work experience, and driving speed are gender biased? Those are all free choices which depend entirely on the driver. As others have noted, women tend to earn more from tips in general, which are poorly represented in this study. So women will actually earn more than the study has indicated, and claims to have fully identified with those three points. Thus women actually appear to probably earn at the very least their fair share - or perhaps even more - when tips are taken into account.

> but the society/system it exists in will still be biased Is biased even the right word here? Maybe I'm just nit-picking, but bias implies some level of intention IMHO. The "bias" here is really just the coincidental effects of nature. I'd say it's more like, "So the service can be unbiased, but trends will inevitably emerge from natural arbitrary properties of the system".

malchow 9y ago

My read of the study is that it more or less proves the opposite: the wage gap is the result of women having such powerfully different preferences that it shows up even when we know discrimination is impossible.

pbiggar 9y ago
You are letting my point sail over you. How do women come to those "powerfully different preferences"? Do we think that all women got together and decided to only drive at less valuable times? Or is it more likely that there are systemic/societal reasons why women as a group pick less-valuable times to drive?
- dang 9y ago
  > You are letting my point sail over you. Please edit such swipes out of your comments here. Besides crossing into incivility, they add no information and make divisive topics even more divisive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Geeek 9y ago
  Can it be systemic yet not societal? Like biological origins?
  - pbiggar 9y ago
    Yeah, I've heard women are biologically programmed to prefer earning less money. JFC, listen to yourself...
    - klipt 9y ago
      Well obviously if the choices were simply "Push button A to get money, or push button B to get more money" then everyone would push button B. But in reality there are other factors. Like "button B has a slightly higher chance of injuring you". Or "button B can only be pushed late at night". It's entirely possible that people are biologically programmed to have different risk/effort/reward preference curves.
      - pbiggar 9y ago
        You've hit the nail on the head with "button B can only be pushed at night". If we set up society such that it's riskier for one group to access good earning potential, basically the definition of systemic bias. To be more concrete here, if it's unsafe for women to drive uber at 2am on a Friday night because of the risk of assault, that's systemic bias (and it should be fixed).
        klipt 9y ago
        I don't know about violence in Ubers specifically, but in general statistically men are more likely to be the victim of violent attacks than women. If men are simply more willing to face those risks for money than women, how do you fix that (apart from trivial theoretical solutions like "remove all violence")?
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        olleromam91 9y ago
        If there were no incentive to do the riskier, arguably more critical jobs...then nobody would do them.

sgc 9y ago

So location, work experience, and driving speed are gender biased? Those are all free choices which depend entirely on the driver. As others have noted, women tend to earn more from tips in general, which are poorly represented in this study. So women will actually earn more than the study has indicated, and claims to have fully identified with those three points. Thus women actually appear to probably earn at the very least their fair share - or perhaps even more - when tips are taken into account.