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> The impacts of this extra protein were not enormous. Almost everyone who started or continued weight training became stronger in these studies, whether they a

> The impacts of this extra protein were not enormous. Almost everyone who started or continued weight training became stronger in these studies, whether they ate more protein or not. But those who did ramp up their protein gained an extra 10 percent or so in strength and about 25 percent in muscle mass compared to the control groups. Maybe it's me, but 10% extra performance and 25% extra muscle mass sounds like quite a huge difference to me - "not enormous" is technically correct but also lowered my expectations to a few percentages.

theoh 9y ago
Is it not that they gained 110% of the performance (125% of the mass) that the control group gained?
- vanderZwan 9y ago
  English technically isn't my first language, but from what I understand having 110% of performance is equal to 1.1x control group performance, gaining 110% of performance would be 2.1x control group performance. EDIT: Oh, I grokked the comment by mikeyouse and you now. Yes, I see what you mean. Anyway, compare this to optimising code programming: there are big changes like switching algorithms, or more incremental improvements, like re-using arrays to reduce memory allocations. I'd say the former is like changing the type of sports/exercise, and the latter is more like this dietary change. For an incremental optimisation, 1.1x is quite significant, no? (there isn't really an analogy for bulking up though; since there isn't a causal relationship between code size and performance and smaller is considered better)
mikeyouse 9y ago
* RET = Resistance Exercise Training * 1RM = 1 Repetition Maximum Strength "The average RET-induced increase, with all measures of 1RM included, was 27kg (mean±SD; 27±22kg22 32). Notably, dietary protein supplementation augmented the increase in 1RM strength by 2.49kg (9%; figure 2; see online supplementary figure 4), which strongly suggests that the practice of RET is a far more potent stimulus for increasing muscle strength than the addition of dietary protein supplementation." "In addition to increasing changes in muscle strength, RET alone (≥6; 13±8weeks) resulted in an increase in FFM (1.1 ± 1.2kg), an increase in fibre CSA (808±) and an increase in mid-femur CSA (52±30mm2). Dietary protein supplementation augmented the increase in FFM by 0.30kg (27%), fibre CSA by 310µm2 (38%) and mid-femur CSA by 7.2mm2 (14%). The postexercise protein dose did not affect the efficacy of protein supplementation on RET-induced changes in FFM whereas training status (positive), age (negative) and baseline protein intake (positive) did. Relative to untrained participants, resistance-trained participants have a smaller potential for muscle growth and an attenuated postexercise muscle protein turnover. As a result, we speculate that trained persons may have less ‘degrees of freedom’ to change with RET and therefore have a greater need for protein supplementation to see increases in muscle mass. Our thesis is supported by the observation of a more consistent impact of protein supplementation on gains in FFM in resistance-trained individuals than in novice trainees." So working out regularly increases your 1-rep max lift by 27kg. Supplementing with protein can increases that max that by 2.5kg. Resistance exercise can increase your muscle mass by 1.1kg and protein can increase muscle mass further by 0.3kg. There was no difference past a protein dose of 1.6g/kg/day and supplementation mainly benefit those starting from a higher point of muscle mass and strength. http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjsports-2017-097608.full.pdf http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjspor...
- vanderZwan 9y ago
  Ah, thank you. You guessed correctly that I misunderstood to which the percentages applied (although I blame the phrasing of the article)

theoh 9y ago

Is it not that they gained 110% of the performance (125% of the mass) that the control group gained?

vanderZwan 9y ago
English technically isn't my first language, but from what I understand having 110% of performance is equal to 1.1x control group performance, gaining 110% of performance would be 2.1x control group performance. EDIT: Oh, I grokked the comment by mikeyouse and you now. Yes, I see what you mean. Anyway, compare this to optimising code programming: there are big changes like switching algorithms, or more incremental improvements, like re-using arrays to reduce memory allocations. I'd say the former is like changing the type of sports/exercise, and the latter is more like this dietary change. For an incremental optimisation, 1.1x is quite significant, no? (there isn't really an analogy for bulking up though; since there isn't a causal relationship between code size and performance and smaller is considered better)

mikeyouse 9y ago

* RET = Resistance Exercise Training * 1RM = 1 Repetition Maximum Strength "The average RET-induced increase, with all measures of 1RM included, was 27kg (mean±SD; 27±22kg22 32). Notably, dietary protein supplementation augmented the increase in 1RM strength by 2.49kg (9%; figure 2; see online supplementary figure 4), which strongly suggests that the practice of RET is a far more potent stimulus for increasing muscle strength than the addition of dietary protein supplementation." "In addition to increasing changes in muscle strength, RET alone (≥6; 13±8weeks) resulted in an increase in FFM (1.1 ± 1.2kg), an increase in fibre CSA (808±) and an increase in mid-femur CSA (52±30mm2). Dietary protein supplementation augmented the increase in FFM by 0.30kg (27%), fibre CSA by 310µm2 (38%) and mid-femur CSA by 7.2mm2 (14%). The postexercise protein dose did not affect the efficacy of protein supplementation on RET-induced changes in FFM whereas training status (positive), age (negative) and baseline protein intake (positive) did. Relative to untrained participants, resistance-trained participants have a smaller potential for muscle growth and an attenuated postexercise muscle protein turnover. As a result, we speculate that trained persons may have less ‘degrees of freedom’ to change with RET and therefore have a greater need for protein supplementation to see increases in muscle mass. Our thesis is supported by the observation of a more consistent impact of protein supplementation on gains in FFM in resistance-trained individuals than in novice trainees." So working out regularly increases your 1-rep max lift by 27kg. Supplementing with protein can increases that max that by 2.5kg. Resistance exercise can increase your muscle mass by 1.1kg and protein can increase muscle mass further by 0.3kg. There was no difference past a protein dose of 1.6g/kg/day and supplementation mainly benefit those starting from a higher point of muscle mass and strength. http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjsports-2017-097608.full.pdf http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjspor...

vanderZwan 9y ago
Ah, thank you. You guessed correctly that I misunderstood to which the percentages applied (although I blame the phrasing of the article)