5 ms·

I think the idea is that you use Gtk+ to get the window.

by jhasse 9y ago

Doxin 9y ago
Which is all fine and dandy if all you care about is GNOME, But presents a real problem when you're trying to be cross-desktop-environment compatible.
- jhasse 9y ago
  It isn't as cross-DE as it could be, but a lot more than just GNOME: MATE, Budgie, Pantheon, XFCE, ...
seba_dos1 9y ago
And add big Gtk+ dependency to the library (and in result, all the games that use it) just to get the window decorations drawn on a single windowing system? Which will probably look ugly and out of place on non-Gtk+ DEs anyway? That's an unacceptable idea.
- jhasse 9y ago
  Why? You don't have Gtk+ installed?
  - seba_dos1 9y ago
    On some systems where I would like to see Allegro on Wayland running, there's no Gtk+. Also, it adds a very big dependency to distribute with your game if you want to bundle the deps or link statically, so the binary doesn't break in a few years when distributions will stop packaging Gtk+3. All this for no other reason than getting the window decorations drawn on poorly designed desktop environments. (in fact, Allegro already has an extension that makes it use Gtk+ on X11 if you want to use native dialogs and menus, but it's a completely optional extension for a reason, as most games don't need them anyway)
    - jhasse 9y ago
      > On some systems where I would like to see Allegro on Wayland running, there's no Gtk+. Can you give an example? > Also, it adds a very big dependency to distribute with your game if you want to bundle the deps or link statically, so the binary doesn't break in a few years when distributions will stop packaging Gtk+3. Since distributions are still shipping Gtk+ 2, I doubt that this will happen "in a few years".
      - seba_dos1 9y ago
        No need for Gtk+ on Plasma Mobile phones, for example. Gtk+2 has some major apps like Gimp that ensure that it's here to stay for a while. Gtk+3's life will sure be shorter, more like Qt4's. Anyway, it doesn't matter. There is no need for Allegro to link with Gtk+ by default, period. Just like mpv, just like SDL, just like many other apps and libraries that don't need a regular toolkit. For some it might be even hard to integrate the glib's mainloop. "You should use Gtk+" in CSD discussion is just a display of arrogance.
        jhasse 9y ago
        > No need for Gtk+ on Plasma Mobile phones, for example. Plasma Mobile officially supports Gtk+. "Native apps are developed using Qt; it will also support apps written in GTK, Android apps, Ubuntu apps, and many others" https://dot.kde.org/2015/07/25/plasma-mobile-free-mobile-platform https://dot.kde.org/2015/07/25/plasma-mobile-free-mobile-pla... > Gtk+2 has some major apps like Gimp that ensure that it's here to stay for a while. Gtk+3's life will sure be shorter, more like Qt4's. Why? Also: GIMP will move to Gtk+ 3 in a few years. Furthermore Gtk+ 3 has even bigger apps: Firefox and Chrome. > For some it might be even hard to integrate the glib's mainloop. That's a valid argument.
        seba_dos1 9y ago
        It supports it, because it's just a regular GNU/Linux distro. It's not a good enough argument to bring in an unwanted dependency you might not have installed on your device otherwise, especially on a device with limited space and memory. Why do you need arguments from me anyway? There's no good argument for CSD, and without it there wouldn't be any problem at all ;P

I think the idea is that you use Gtk+ to get the window.

by jhasse 9y ago

I think the idea is that you use Gtk+ to get the window.

Which is all fine and dandy if all you care about is GNOME, But presents a real problem when you're trying to be cross-desktop-environment compatible.

jhasse 9y ago
It isn't as cross-DE as it could be, but a lot more than just GNOME: MATE, Budgie, Pantheon, XFCE, ...

seba_dos1 9y ago

And add big Gtk+ dependency to the library (and in result, all the games that use it) just to get the window decorations drawn on a single windowing system? Which will probably look ugly and out of place on non-Gtk+ DEs anyway? That's an unacceptable idea.

jhasse 9y ago
Why? You don't have Gtk+ installed?
- seba_dos1 9y ago
  On some systems where I would like to see Allegro on Wayland running, there's no Gtk+. Also, it adds a very big dependency to distribute with your game if you want to bundle the deps or link statically, so the binary doesn't break in a few years when distributions will stop packaging Gtk+3. All this for no other reason than getting the window decorations drawn on poorly designed desktop environments. (in fact, Allegro already has an extension that makes it use Gtk+ on X11 if you want to use native dialogs and menus, but it's a completely optional extension for a reason, as most games don't need them anyway)
  - jhasse 9y ago
    > On some systems where I would like to see Allegro on Wayland running, there's no Gtk+. Can you give an example? > Also, it adds a very big dependency to distribute with your game if you want to bundle the deps or link statically, so the binary doesn't break in a few years when distributions will stop packaging Gtk+3. Since distributions are still shipping Gtk+ 2, I doubt that this will happen "in a few years".
    - seba_dos1 9y ago
      No need for Gtk+ on Plasma Mobile phones, for example. Gtk+2 has some major apps like Gimp that ensure that it's here to stay for a while. Gtk+3's life will sure be shorter, more like Qt4's. Anyway, it doesn't matter. There is no need for Allegro to link with Gtk+ by default, period. Just like mpv, just like SDL, just like many other apps and libraries that don't need a regular toolkit. For some it might be even hard to integrate the glib's mainloop. "You should use Gtk+" in CSD discussion is just a display of arrogance.
      - jhasse 9y ago
        > No need for Gtk+ on Plasma Mobile phones, for example. Plasma Mobile officially supports Gtk+. "Native apps are developed using Qt; it will also support apps written in GTK, Android apps, Ubuntu apps, and many others" https://dot.kde.org/2015/07/25/plasma-mobile-free-mobile-platform https://dot.kde.org/2015/07/25/plasma-mobile-free-mobile-pla... > Gtk+2 has some major apps like Gimp that ensure that it's here to stay for a while. Gtk+3's life will sure be shorter, more like Qt4's. Why? Also: GIMP will move to Gtk+ 3 in a few years. Furthermore Gtk+ 3 has even bigger apps: Firefox and Chrome. > For some it might be even hard to integrate the glib's mainloop. That's a valid argument.
        seba_dos1 9y ago
        It supports it, because it's just a regular GNU/Linux distro. It's not a good enough argument to bring in an unwanted dependency you might not have installed on your device otherwise, especially on a device with limited space and memory. Why do you need arguments from me anyway? There's no good argument for CSD, and without it there wouldn't be any problem at all ;P