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The Gutenberg Project had free e-books decades ago, but people did not and do not devour Beowulf the same way they do an Instagram feed, even though Beowulf is

The Gutenberg Project had free e-books decades ago, but people did not and do not devour Beowulf the same way they do an Instagram feed, even though Beowulf is even easier and cheaper to access.

rm_-rf_slash 9y ago
Great point. And another example: I would much rather mindlessly browse Reddit or HN on the toilet or in between tasks at work, than to commit my attention to a classic like Beowulf at those times.
IntronExon 9y ago
Most people couldn’t even read Beowulf if you gave it to them. Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten, mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold, fen ond fæsten; fifelcynnes eard wonsæli wer weardode hwile, siþðan him scyppend forscrifen hæfde in Caines cynne. Many people struggle to read their own language sadly, or comprehend stories with any amount of depth. Old English is probably asking too much of them. I’m not convinced that this is new though, we’re just far more connected to the LCD than ever before. Edit: Translation of excerpt: Grendel this monster grim was called, march-riever mighty, in moorland living, in fen and fastness; fief of the giants the hapless wight a while had kept since the Creator his exile doomed. On kin of Cain was the killing avenged...
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  There are translations also on The Gutenberg Project.
  - IntronExon 9y ago
    Yes, I remembered that and included the translation, but I’d say that my overall point stands. How many people would find the translation overly accessible unless they were already of a literary bent, or just well educated?
    - boomboomsubban 9y ago
      It's an epic about a king traveling and killing a dragon, it doesn't take a ton of education to enjoy. And beyond that, there are many books on there that are accessible for anyone who can read. Your overall point seems fine, but it agrees with the person you replied to that cheap and easy to get isn't what's driving this.
      - watwut 9y ago
        > It's an epic about a king traveling and killing a dragon, it doesn't take a ton of education to enjoy. That is an extremely simplistic look at literature - you just reduced it to one sentence description of plot alone. That is not how it works and that is not how it ever worked. What makes it hard is the way it is written, presence of either dragon or killing does not make something easier to read. He is right in that most people would not enjoy it. > And beyond that, there are many books on there that are accessible for anyone who can read. And many many more that are decisively not accessible. You assume that people will dig for hours through guttenberg to find something fun and accessible, but they wont and probably cant.
        boomboomsubban 9y ago
        >That is an extremely simplistic look at literature - you just reduced it to one sentence description of plot alone. That is not how it works and that is not how it ever worked. There's more in the text than just the plot, but the story alone can be enjoyable without knowing everything else. I'll agree the old translation of an ancient poem is probably still going to be a chore, a better example is something like Dracula. >And many many more that are decisively not accessible. You assume that people will dig for hours through guttenberg to find something fun and accessible, but they wont and probably cant. No, I assume that people will find something fun and accessible by the same means they do elsewhere, either through talking to other people or looking at what's popular.
        IntronExon 9y ago
        You’re giving me the strong impression of someone who is very bright, and has spent most of their time around other very bright people in the context of an excellent education. You should be proud of that, while recognizing how many more people live profoundly different lives. Consider the popularity of entertainment you’d find offensively boring, and remember that far more people enjoy that, than Beowulf. In short, what you’re saying isn’t wrong or unreasonable, but I think it’s fair to say that it reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of what “average” looks like.
HenryBemis 9y ago
It is a choice each one will make for oneself. I e.g. made the choice to selectively read things, drop out completely from social media, buzzfeed (and the sort) and rely on proper journalism. I am 100% with Danny on this one. Of course (freedom of choice) one may select the Kardashians (and unfortunately not the Star Trek ones) over poetry. I want them to select what they feel like consuming, and I want me to have the same choice. The problem is with many outlets switching to 'junkfood', the few that may remain become hostage to money-hungry shareholders and thus the game is slowly being lost.
watwut 9y ago
If you define good book as "a book I will enjoy to read", then finding good book on Gutengerg is quite hard. You need to know either author or book name. Finding those takes quite a lot of effort. Otherwise you will be downloading things that have no interest to you - and end up on instagram.

The Gutenberg Project had free e-books decades ago, but people did not and do not devour Beowulf the same way they do an Instagram feed, even though Beowulf is even easier and cheaper to access.

rm_-rf_slash 9y ago

Great point. And another example: I would much rather mindlessly browse Reddit or HN on the toilet or in between tasks at work, than to commit my attention to a classic like Beowulf at those times.

IntronExon 9y ago

Most people couldn’t even read Beowulf if you gave it to them. Wæs se grimma gæst Grendel haten, mære mearcstapa, se þe moras heold, fen ond fæsten; fifelcynnes eard wonsæli wer weardode hwile, siþðan him scyppend forscrifen hæfde in Caines cynne. Many people struggle to read their own language sadly, or comprehend stories with any amount of depth. Old English is probably asking too much of them. I’m not convinced that this is new though, we’re just far more connected to the LCD than ever before. Edit: Translation of excerpt: Grendel this monster grim was called, march-riever mighty, in moorland living, in fen and fastness; fief of the giants the hapless wight a while had kept since the Creator his exile doomed. On kin of Cain was the killing avenged...

boomboomsubban 9y ago
There are translations also on The Gutenberg Project.
- IntronExon 9y ago
  Yes, I remembered that and included the translation, but I’d say that my overall point stands. How many people would find the translation overly accessible unless they were already of a literary bent, or just well educated?
  - boomboomsubban 9y ago
    It's an epic about a king traveling and killing a dragon, it doesn't take a ton of education to enjoy. And beyond that, there are many books on there that are accessible for anyone who can read. Your overall point seems fine, but it agrees with the person you replied to that cheap and easy to get isn't what's driving this.
    - watwut 9y ago
      > It's an epic about a king traveling and killing a dragon, it doesn't take a ton of education to enjoy. That is an extremely simplistic look at literature - you just reduced it to one sentence description of plot alone. That is not how it works and that is not how it ever worked. What makes it hard is the way it is written, presence of either dragon or killing does not make something easier to read. He is right in that most people would not enjoy it. > And beyond that, there are many books on there that are accessible for anyone who can read. And many many more that are decisively not accessible. You assume that people will dig for hours through guttenberg to find something fun and accessible, but they wont and probably cant.
      - boomboomsubban 9y ago
        >That is an extremely simplistic look at literature - you just reduced it to one sentence description of plot alone. That is not how it works and that is not how it ever worked. There's more in the text than just the plot, but the story alone can be enjoyable without knowing everything else. I'll agree the old translation of an ancient poem is probably still going to be a chore, a better example is something like Dracula. >And many many more that are decisively not accessible. You assume that people will dig for hours through guttenberg to find something fun and accessible, but they wont and probably cant. No, I assume that people will find something fun and accessible by the same means they do elsewhere, either through talking to other people or looking at what's popular.
        IntronExon 9y ago
        You’re giving me the strong impression of someone who is very bright, and has spent most of their time around other very bright people in the context of an excellent education. You should be proud of that, while recognizing how many more people live profoundly different lives. Consider the popularity of entertainment you’d find offensively boring, and remember that far more people enjoy that, than Beowulf. In short, what you’re saying isn’t wrong or unreasonable, but I think it’s fair to say that it reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of what “average” looks like.

HenryBemis 9y ago

It is a choice each one will make for oneself. I e.g. made the choice to selectively read things, drop out completely from social media, buzzfeed (and the sort) and rely on proper journalism. I am 100% with Danny on this one. Of course (freedom of choice) one may select the Kardashians (and unfortunately not the Star Trek ones) over poetry. I want them to select what they feel like consuming, and I want me to have the same choice. The problem is with many outlets switching to 'junkfood', the few that may remain become hostage to money-hungry shareholders and thus the game is slowly being lost.

watwut 9y ago

If you define good book as "a book I will enjoy to read", then finding good book on Gutengerg is quite hard. You need to know either author or book name. Finding those takes quite a lot of effort. Otherwise you will be downloading things that have no interest to you - and end up on instagram.