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Overall, female and male Uber drivers behave remarkably similarly but small differences aggregated over large samples produce a small but systematic gender gap

by nkurz 9y ago

Overall, female and male Uber drivers behave remarkably similarly but small differences aggregated over large samples produce a small but systematic gender gap in wages of about 7%. The gap, however, is an artifact, a social construct that has no implications for “social justice,” drivers are treated equally. Ouch. To the contrary, I'd say that this study does have significant implications for "social justice", namely that not all pay gaps are caused by the issues that fall under heading of "social justice". There are some interesting thoughts within the comments of that piece. One was whether the "costs" of male and female drivers were the same. Since the evidence shows that males drove faster on average than females, one might guess that they would also receive more speeding tickets. Presumably there would also be differences in accident rates, and hence differences in insurance rates. Does the pay gap close further once these increased/reduced costs are taken into account?

lykr0n 9y ago
Males, on average, pay more for insurance than their female counterparts before even factoring in everything else[1]. It doesn't close the pay game, but does skew the income after expenses. I'd assume if you run the numbers, females are taking more home after expenses. [1] https://www.unioncolonyins.com/facebook/blog/does-age-gender-and-marital-status-affect-your-auto-insurance-rate.aspx https://www.unioncolonyins.com/facebook/blog/does-age-gender...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
rossdavidh 9y ago
Well, one could use this data to claim that a pay gap of on the order of 7% is plausibly not relevant to "social justice". In other words, if you didn't have sex discrimination, you'd have a pay gap of something like 7%. Not many industries, I believe, have gender pay gaps that small. If you have truly gender-blind, performance only returns to pay, your gender pay gap should be single-digit.
- lykr0n 9y ago
  > gender pay gap should be single-digit. What this shows me is that there will always be an inherent pay gap due to difference performance. Uber/Lyft has no barriers to entry that can discriminate based on gender. If there is only a 7% delta in a low skill job such as driving, it makes more sense that the gap would increase as skill goes up due differences in skill becoming more important (this would be true on both sides of the isle). It's such a complicated issue, especially when you factor in secondary expenses such as cost of living, insurance, and anything else. Generalizing it to "it should be something" is a disservice.
- nkurz 9y ago
  Sure, given this one data point that's also a fair interpretation, although you'd be assuming a lot about the distribution of not-necessarily-comparable jobs across industries. But this reasonable interpretation is also at odds with the author's disclaimer that 'The gap, however, is an artifact, a social construct that has no implications for "social justice"'. I presume the author doesn't actually believe that this gap definitively "an artifact" with "no implications". Rather, he probably believes something closer to "the fact that this gap is not caused by prejudice does not imply that the social justice movement is wrong". I presume he defensively overstated it in the way he did to reduce the chances of being attacked by an online mob. While it's understandable that he'd want to do avoid being attacked, I'd prefer if he could phrase his deflection in a way that is more strictly correct.
- ThrustVectoring 9y ago
  "Pay Gap" isn't an accurate term to talk about these phenomena. It's more accurately a "tradeoff gap". Men tend to work more hours, expose themselves to more risk of workplace death, compete harder, do less intrinsically rewarding work, and so forth. Is it fair that men make somewhat more money and make up 90% of workplace deaths? It depends on what you care about, and empirically speaking, it seems that men care about bottom-line salary more than women do, and make tradeoffs for it that women don't.
  - lykr0n 9y ago
    And I think you hit the dirty secret that people who use the 77% number tend to ignore. There are fundamental differences in the kinds of work and the general approach to work that males and females take. Nothing wrong with that, but to ignore that in the discussion would be a disservice. What this shows is that at least 7% of a wage gap could be considered normal and to be expected.

by nkurz 9y ago

lykr0n 9y ago

Males, on average, pay more for insurance than their female counterparts before even factoring in everything else[1]. It doesn't close the pay game, but does skew the income after expenses. I'd assume if you run the numbers, females are taking more home after expenses. [1] https://www.unioncolonyins.com/facebook/blog/does-age-gender-and-marital-status-affect-your-auto-insurance-rate.aspx https://www.unioncolonyins.com/facebook/blog/does-age-gender...

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

rossdavidh 9y ago

Well, one could use this data to claim that a pay gap of on the order of 7% is plausibly not relevant to "social justice". In other words, if you didn't have sex discrimination, you'd have a pay gap of something like 7%. Not many industries, I believe, have gender pay gaps that small. If you have truly gender-blind, performance only returns to pay, your gender pay gap should be single-digit.

lykr0n 9y ago
> gender pay gap should be single-digit. What this shows me is that there will always be an inherent pay gap due to difference performance. Uber/Lyft has no barriers to entry that can discriminate based on gender. If there is only a 7% delta in a low skill job such as driving, it makes more sense that the gap would increase as skill goes up due differences in skill becoming more important (this would be true on both sides of the isle). It's such a complicated issue, especially when you factor in secondary expenses such as cost of living, insurance, and anything else. Generalizing it to "it should be something" is a disservice.
nkurz 9y ago
Sure, given this one data point that's also a fair interpretation, although you'd be assuming a lot about the distribution of not-necessarily-comparable jobs across industries. But this reasonable interpretation is also at odds with the author's disclaimer that 'The gap, however, is an artifact, a social construct that has no implications for "social justice"'. I presume the author doesn't actually believe that this gap definitively "an artifact" with "no implications". Rather, he probably believes something closer to "the fact that this gap is not caused by prejudice does not imply that the social justice movement is wrong". I presume he defensively overstated it in the way he did to reduce the chances of being attacked by an online mob. While it's understandable that he'd want to do avoid being attacked, I'd prefer if he could phrase his deflection in a way that is more strictly correct.
ThrustVectoring 9y ago
"Pay Gap" isn't an accurate term to talk about these phenomena. It's more accurately a "tradeoff gap". Men tend to work more hours, expose themselves to more risk of workplace death, compete harder, do less intrinsically rewarding work, and so forth. Is it fair that men make somewhat more money and make up 90% of workplace deaths? It depends on what you care about, and empirically speaking, it seems that men care about bottom-line salary more than women do, and make tradeoffs for it that women don't.
- lykr0n 9y ago
  And I think you hit the dirty secret that people who use the 77% number tend to ignore. There are fundamental differences in the kinds of work and the general approach to work that males and females take. Nothing wrong with that, but to ignore that in the discussion would be a disservice. What this shows is that at least 7% of a wage gap could be considered normal and to be expected.