3 ms·

Lost technologies

24 points by auxbuss 16y ago

auxbuss 16y ago
Fascinating that NASA are now having to reverse engineer existing spacecraft parts that they have lying around in junkyards, since they forewent the opportunity to document during development, apparently due delivery pressure and use of contractors.
- hga 16y ago
  Actually, when it came to the Saturn V rocket NASA deliberately destroyed the design documents in a "burn your boats" style to make the Space Shuttle the only way forward. Disbanded Wernher von Braun's team for good measure. Which is a pity, seeing as how some of the details of the design of the first stage kerosene/LOX F-1 engines were said to be pretty well near magic (it had 7 years of teething problems according to Wikipedia). On the other hand I know from an acquaintance that the NERVA developers including her father were gathered together no later than in the '80s so that their work could be adequately documented.
arethuza 16y ago
I'd add Vitrified Forts to that list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitrified_fort http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitrified_fort Fortresses built with stone walls that have been melted together - presumably on purpose.
adolph 16y ago
It is interesting how many things are "lost" due to missing meta-data. Summary: 10. Stradivari: leading hypothesis seems to be that the density of the particular wood used accounts for the sound. 9. Nepenthe: most likely still used today, but historians are unable to pinpoint just what modern substance the Greeks were referring to 8. Antikythera: true purpose is still not fully known 7. Telharmonium: public’s fascination with the device waned 6. Library of Alexandria: contents burned sometime around the first or second century AD. Scholars are still uncertain just how the fire was started 5. Damascus Steel: supply of ores needed for the special recipe for Damascus steel started running low, and sword makers were forced to develop other techniques 4. Apollo/Gemini Space Program Technology: just because modern scientists have the parts doesn’t mean they have the knowledge to understand how or why they worked the way they did 3. Silphium: scarcity, combined with an overwhelming demand, more than likely led to over harvesting, which drove the plant into extinction 2. Roman Cement: recipe for concrete was lost during the descent into the Dark Ages 1. Greek Fire: weapon’s use seems to disappear after the decline of the Byzantine Empire, but just why still isn’t known
stcredzero 16y ago
This article is a bit off on one part. Damascus steel has in fact been reproduced, at least in part. (There's one southern blacksmith who did a demo on a documentary with a hydraulic press and his recreated Damascus blade cutting through cheap blades.) One of the key reasons why the "recipe was lost" was that a part of the recipe resided in the hands of Indian suppliers of wootz. The Indian suppliers were managing to put trace amounts of vanadium into the steel, but then somehow changed their process so that this stopped. After that point, no one could make Damascus blades anymore. Contrast this with Japanese swordsmiths, who maintain close relationships with their smelters. (Supplier relationships were supposed to be one of the keys to the modern Japanese economic success.)

24 points by auxbuss 16y ago

Fascinating that NASA are now having to reverse engineer existing spacecraft parts that they have lying around in junkyards, since they forewent the opportunity to document during development, apparently due delivery pressure and use of contractors.

hga 16y ago
Actually, when it came to the Saturn V rocket NASA deliberately destroyed the design documents in a "burn your boats" style to make the Space Shuttle the only way forward. Disbanded Wernher von Braun's team for good measure. Which is a pity, seeing as how some of the details of the design of the first stage kerosene/LOX F-1 engines were said to be pretty well near magic (it had 7 years of teething problems according to Wikipedia). On the other hand I know from an acquaintance that the NERVA developers including her father were gathered together no later than in the '80s so that their work could be adequately documented.

arethuza 16y ago

I'd add Vitrified Forts to that list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitrified_fort http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitrified_fort Fortresses built with stone walls that have been melted together - presumably on purpose.

adolph 16y ago

It is interesting how many things are "lost" due to missing meta-data. Summary: 10. Stradivari: leading hypothesis seems to be that the density of the particular wood used accounts for the sound. 9. Nepenthe: most likely still used today, but historians are unable to pinpoint just what modern substance the Greeks were referring to 8. Antikythera: true purpose is still not fully known 7. Telharmonium: public’s fascination with the device waned 6. Library of Alexandria: contents burned sometime around the first or second century AD. Scholars are still uncertain just how the fire was started 5. Damascus Steel: supply of ores needed for the special recipe for Damascus steel started running low, and sword makers were forced to develop other techniques 4. Apollo/Gemini Space Program Technology: just because modern scientists have the parts doesn’t mean they have the knowledge to understand how or why they worked the way they did 3. Silphium: scarcity, combined with an overwhelming demand, more than likely led to over harvesting, which drove the plant into extinction 2. Roman Cement: recipe for concrete was lost during the descent into the Dark Ages 1. Greek Fire: weapon’s use seems to disappear after the decline of the Byzantine Empire, but just why still isn’t known

stcredzero 16y ago

This article is a bit off on one part. Damascus steel has in fact been reproduced, at least in part. (There's one southern blacksmith who did a demo on a documentary with a hydraulic press and his recreated Damascus blade cutting through cheap blades.) One of the key reasons why the "recipe was lost" was that a part of the recipe resided in the hands of Indian suppliers of wootz. The Indian suppliers were managing to put trace amounts of vanadium into the steel, but then somehow changed their process so that this stopped. After that point, no one could make Damascus blades anymore. Contrast this with Japanese swordsmiths, who maintain close relationships with their smelters. (Supplier relationships were supposed to be one of the keys to the modern Japanese economic success.)