5 ms·

Can anyone recommend a particular maker and/or model which are, from their own experience, hackable in the sense of the book?

ingenieroariel 9y ago
Ford Fusion Titanium Plus 2017, better if you get the Hybrid version. (This one I own) Chevy Bolt/Volt. (This would be my first choice if I lived in the US) Toyota Prius. (This would be my second choice if I lived in the US) Honda Civic. (This one has a lot of information out there thanks to Comma AI)
- chrisper 9y ago
  Are your choices based on hackability or something else?
  - ingenieroariel 9y ago
    The hackability comes with the car doing most of it's internal communication via a CAN bus and having enough electrical power to power your custom electronics. Apart from that, the car needs to have Steering by wire, Gas/Brake by wire and Shift by wire. Lane Keep Assist and Adaptive Criuse Control in those models mean that the car can be ordered to steer or accelerate via the can bus without additional actuators. I have been learning about that topic for about a year and a half and the reason I recommend those specific models is because I have seen autonomous driving companies pick those specific ones without official support from the manufacturer.
    - dima586 9y ago
      Steering by wire --> none of the cars you listed have steer by wire. Nissan is the only OEM who has steer by wire in production. Brake by wire --> does not exist at all.
      - gambiting 9y ago
        While no cars have brake by wire, the computer can stop the car using mechanical actuators already(ABS is exactly this, or the more modern emergency breaking system) - same with steering, plenty of cars have "parking assist" where they park themselves, so the computer must be able to control the steering even if it's done by mechanical means.
      - ingenieroariel 9y ago
        You are right in the formal sense, none of those cars officially have by-wire functionality but in order to have LKAS, Park Assist and ACC work they need to support steering via can bus messages and braking via can bus messages. I used by-wire in an informal sense. Disclamer, I have never worked in the car industry, that's why my terminology is a bit loose.
        ShirsenduK 9y ago
        ingenieroariel is being humble here. He is one of the first (if not the first) to do this with the Ford Fusion. https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/issues/1 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/issues/1
        ingenieroariel 9y ago
        Work on the Lincoln MKZ / Ford Fusion was made popular thanks to Dataspeed / Autonomoustuff, they open sourced a ROS module but most of their magic is propietary / secret. It's expensive but a lot of startups use it. The work that you point to is what we now know "openly", and yeah, there is only a few of us and I am one of the firsts sharing their findings on that specific model. There are a ton of people who know what we yet don't know but they don't/can't share it publicly.
      - PinguTS 9y ago
        Every car that has an lane assistant or a parking assistant with automatic steering, and there are number that do support either of those, is having some sort of steer by wire. Even the lane assistant is normally designed to give you a force in the steering wheel to keep the lane. That you can reuse for automatic driving of some sort.
  - lowtolerance 9y ago
    I can’t speak to his rationale, but all of these are relatively affordable vehicles that take advantage of a lot of the newer technologies that tie into the CAN bus. Additionally, they expose interfaces to many of the onboard computers connected via CAN through the DLC connector, and off-the-shelf hardware exists for Toyota and Honda vehicles to expose the rest of the bus through the DLC connector, which is not particularly useful for typical scan tools, but it does allow for comma.io’s panda dongle to dump pretty much all of the information being passed around on the CAN bus.
- afeezaziz 9y ago
  Do you mean you can actually control the brake/steering/acceleration using CANBUS for these model?
  - jacobreg 9y ago
    Aren't there massive safety concerns with that? I certainly wouldn't want any of those things controlled by an arduino and code I hacked together.
    - afeezaziz 9y ago
      Yes, I agree but I would want to try it for fun, in a controlled environment, open space area.
- alvern 9y ago
  I have gotten read only CAN data from a 2006 Toyota Prius. I used TUCRRC CAN ID's to map the output. [1] The interface board was an early Macchina, Arduino 256 with CAN hat and 12V power on board. [2] 1 http://tucrrc.utulsa.edu/ToyotaCAN.html http://tucrrc.utulsa.edu/ToyotaCAN.html 2 https://www.macchina.cc/ https://www.macchina.cc/
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  Any car or truck from the big3 with a V8 Hacking/tuning is market driven. There aren't many people looking to re-tune their Kias for the supercharger or drop modern VW power-trains into old muscle cars. The more knowledge is out there on how to work with the vehicle's systems in a way other than the OEM intended then the easier it will be. The computer systems will generally be the same across manufacturer (e.g. the Focus will be about the same as a Mustang) so a lot of the higher level stuff transfers but there's a ton of little "gotchas" that will be better documented by the aftermarket on the performance targeted platforms

ingenieroariel 9y ago

Ford Fusion Titanium Plus 2017, better if you get the Hybrid version. (This one I own) Chevy Bolt/Volt. (This would be my first choice if I lived in the US) Toyota Prius. (This would be my second choice if I lived in the US) Honda Civic. (This one has a lot of information out there thanks to Comma AI)

chrisper 9y ago
Are your choices based on hackability or something else?
- ingenieroariel 9y ago
  The hackability comes with the car doing most of it's internal communication via a CAN bus and having enough electrical power to power your custom electronics. Apart from that, the car needs to have Steering by wire, Gas/Brake by wire and Shift by wire. Lane Keep Assist and Adaptive Criuse Control in those models mean that the car can be ordered to steer or accelerate via the can bus without additional actuators. I have been learning about that topic for about a year and a half and the reason I recommend those specific models is because I have seen autonomous driving companies pick those specific ones without official support from the manufacturer.
  - dima586 9y ago
    Steering by wire --> none of the cars you listed have steer by wire. Nissan is the only OEM who has steer by wire in production. Brake by wire --> does not exist at all.
    - gambiting 9y ago
      While no cars have brake by wire, the computer can stop the car using mechanical actuators already(ABS is exactly this, or the more modern emergency breaking system) - same with steering, plenty of cars have "parking assist" where they park themselves, so the computer must be able to control the steering even if it's done by mechanical means.
    - ingenieroariel 9y ago
      You are right in the formal sense, none of those cars officially have by-wire functionality but in order to have LKAS, Park Assist and ACC work they need to support steering via can bus messages and braking via can bus messages. I used by-wire in an informal sense. Disclamer, I have never worked in the car industry, that's why my terminology is a bit loose.
      - ShirsenduK 9y ago
        ingenieroariel is being humble here. He is one of the first (if not the first) to do this with the Ford Fusion. https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/issues/1 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/issues/1
        ingenieroariel 9y ago
        Work on the Lincoln MKZ / Ford Fusion was made popular thanks to Dataspeed / Autonomoustuff, they open sourced a ROS module but most of their magic is propietary / secret. It's expensive but a lot of startups use it. The work that you point to is what we now know "openly", and yeah, there is only a few of us and I am one of the firsts sharing their findings on that specific model. There are a ton of people who know what we yet don't know but they don't/can't share it publicly.
    - PinguTS 9y ago
      Every car that has an lane assistant or a parking assistant with automatic steering, and there are number that do support either of those, is having some sort of steer by wire. Even the lane assistant is normally designed to give you a force in the steering wheel to keep the lane. That you can reuse for automatic driving of some sort.
- lowtolerance 9y ago
  I can’t speak to his rationale, but all of these are relatively affordable vehicles that take advantage of a lot of the newer technologies that tie into the CAN bus. Additionally, they expose interfaces to many of the onboard computers connected via CAN through the DLC connector, and off-the-shelf hardware exists for Toyota and Honda vehicles to expose the rest of the bus through the DLC connector, which is not particularly useful for typical scan tools, but it does allow for comma.io’s panda dongle to dump pretty much all of the information being passed around on the CAN bus.
afeezaziz 9y ago
Do you mean you can actually control the brake/steering/acceleration using CANBUS for these model?
- jacobreg 9y ago
  Aren't there massive safety concerns with that? I certainly wouldn't want any of those things controlled by an arduino and code I hacked together.
  - afeezaziz 9y ago
    Yes, I agree but I would want to try it for fun, in a controlled environment, open space area.
alvern 9y ago
I have gotten read only CAN data from a 2006 Toyota Prius. I used TUCRRC CAN ID's to map the output. [1] The interface board was an early Macchina, Arduino 256 with CAN hat and 12V power on board. [2] 1 http://tucrrc.utulsa.edu/ToyotaCAN.html http://tucrrc.utulsa.edu/ToyotaCAN.html 2 https://www.macchina.cc/ https://www.macchina.cc/
dsfyu404ed 9y ago
Any car or truck from the big3 with a V8 Hacking/tuning is market driven. There aren't many people looking to re-tune their Kias for the supercharger or drop modern VW power-trains into old muscle cars. The more knowledge is out there on how to work with the vehicle's systems in a way other than the OEM intended then the easier it will be. The computer systems will generally be the same across manufacturer (e.g. the Focus will be about the same as a Mustang) so a lot of the higher level stuff transfers but there's a ton of little "gotchas" that will be better documented by the aftermarket on the performance targeted platforms