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I don't think corruption has much to do with "militarization". It doesn't take a tank to plant evidence and steal money. Also, much of the equipment that peopl

I don't think corruption has much to do with "militarization". It doesn't take a tank to plant evidence and steal money. Also, much of the equipment that people point to as evidence of "militarization" is either generic equipment that has valid police use (e.g. armored trucks. Brinks security, for example, uses them for their secure transport services), or is not military equipment at all. Riot shields, gas masks, and tear gas aren't commonly used by the military and they are designed to resolve things like riots non-lethally. In the old days, soldiers were broke up riots by clubbing people with sticks and shooting wooden bullets. Today's riot police are much better equipped to safely disperse a crowd with their "militarized" equipment.

CamperBob2 9y ago
It's not about the tanks. Once the cops start thinking of themselves as "warriors" and the rest of us as "civilians," the necessary lines have been drawn in their minds to justify mistreatment of the outside group. One difference between our militarized (and unionized) police forces and the real military is that if you're in the military and you shoot someone who didn't need shooting, you are in very deep shit. The police are demanding -- and getting -- all of the perks of the Heroic Warrior job title, accompanied by few of the responsibilities that should go with it and essentially none of the accountability.
- manfredo 9y ago
  I see this assertion made about police thinking of themselves as "warriors" but I have yet to see this substantiated by evidence. It doesn't correspond to the rate of people killed by police (that rate essentially mirrors the overall rate of street crime). I am even more dubious of the second claim you make. A US citizen has vastly better ability to attempt to exact justice for their own police force's actions than someone in northern Iraq or Afghanistan's tribal regions. Especially when the military is more likely to use indirect weapons and weapons with drastically longer range (artillery, airstrikes, etc.) the notion that an unnecessary killing is more likely to result in disciplinary action in the military is very unlikely - there's a substantial chance such loss of life isn't even detected.
  - CamperBob2 9y ago
    It doesn't correspond to the rate of people killed by police (that rate essentially mirrors the overall rate of street crime). That's not an accurate characterization. Suggested reading: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas-ebook/dp/B00B3M3UFQ https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri... I am even more dubious of the second claim you make. A US citizen has vastly better ability to attempt to exact justice for their own police force's actions than someone in northern Iraq or Afghanistan's tribal regions. A deployed soldier may be more likely to succeed in hiding the evidence of crimes they commit. They'd better succeed, because that's the only way they'll escape punishment. The differences come into play when the rogue cop or soldier is actually caught. Military personnel are held to higher standards than civilians in many respects, while police continually demand to be held to lower ones.
    - DenisM 9y ago
      Are you aware of Mai Lai massacre? That’s one we have been told about because there was no hiding it once congress got involved. There should be many others where nobody broke the ranks. [1] trigger warning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
- duncan_bayne 9y ago
  > One difference between our militarized (and unionized) police forces and the real military is that if you're in the military and you shoot someone who didn't need shooting, you are in very deep shit. Only if the wrong people find out. Just like with the cops. https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/ https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/
anigbrowl 9y ago
I don't think corruption has much to do with "militarization" Not the corruption of individual cops on the street, but I bet there are some kickbacks given for purchase of heavy equipment. Don't want to get political about it but tear gas is pretty aggressive, and is ironically banned for use on the battlefield but it's considered totally normal for police to use it to control civilian populations.
- coredog64 9y ago
  Much of the militarization is the DoD giving the stuff away to police departments. Baltimore PD can't afford to buy MRAPs.
- pandaman 9y ago
  "Ironically" hollow point bullets are banned for military too, yet I rather have police use those than AP rounds, which would fly through the perp, his car, his house, his block and end up in some bystander next street over. Would you rather police use napalm (not banned for military) than teargas? And, as the sibling said, police is not purchasing DoD equipment[1], if there is any corruption it could not be in form of kickbacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program
  - anigbrowl 9y ago
    DoD isn't the only source of equipment. All that riot gear doesn't come cheap.
    - pandaman 9y ago
      If you are not taking about military gear then why bring up militarization in the same context? Of course there are kickbacks in any government's procurement, even if they are just buying staplers or catering. People spending other people's money do want to be rewarded for the effort.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago

CamperBob2 9y ago

It's not about the tanks. Once the cops start thinking of themselves as "warriors" and the rest of us as "civilians," the necessary lines have been drawn in their minds to justify mistreatment of the outside group. One difference between our militarized (and unionized) police forces and the real military is that if you're in the military and you shoot someone who didn't need shooting, you are in very deep shit. The police are demanding -- and getting -- all of the perks of the Heroic Warrior job title, accompanied by few of the responsibilities that should go with it and essentially none of the accountability.

manfredo 9y ago
I see this assertion made about police thinking of themselves as "warriors" but I have yet to see this substantiated by evidence. It doesn't correspond to the rate of people killed by police (that rate essentially mirrors the overall rate of street crime). I am even more dubious of the second claim you make. A US citizen has vastly better ability to attempt to exact justice for their own police force's actions than someone in northern Iraq or Afghanistan's tribal regions. Especially when the military is more likely to use indirect weapons and weapons with drastically longer range (artillery, airstrikes, etc.) the notion that an unnecessary killing is more likely to result in disciplinary action in the military is very unlikely - there's a substantial chance such loss of life isn't even detected.
- CamperBob2 9y ago
  It doesn't correspond to the rate of people killed by police (that rate essentially mirrors the overall rate of street crime). That's not an accurate characterization. Suggested reading: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas-ebook/dp/B00B3M3UFQ https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri... I am even more dubious of the second claim you make. A US citizen has vastly better ability to attempt to exact justice for their own police force's actions than someone in northern Iraq or Afghanistan's tribal regions. A deployed soldier may be more likely to succeed in hiding the evidence of crimes they commit. They'd better succeed, because that's the only way they'll escape punishment. The differences come into play when the rogue cop or soldier is actually caught. Military personnel are held to higher standards than civilians in many respects, while police continually demand to be held to lower ones.
  - DenisM 9y ago
    Are you aware of Mai Lai massacre? That’s one we have been told about because there was no hiding it once congress got involved. There should be many others where nobody broke the ranks. [1] trigger warning: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
duncan_bayne 9y ago
> One difference between our militarized (and unionized) police forces and the real military is that if you're in the military and you shoot someone who didn't need shooting, you are in very deep shit. Only if the wrong people find out. Just like with the cops. https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/ https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/

anigbrowl 9y ago

I don't think corruption has much to do with "militarization" Not the corruption of individual cops on the street, but I bet there are some kickbacks given for purchase of heavy equipment. Don't want to get political about it but tear gas is pretty aggressive, and is ironically banned for use on the battlefield but it's considered totally normal for police to use it to control civilian populations.

coredog64 9y ago
Much of the militarization is the DoD giving the stuff away to police departments. Baltimore PD can't afford to buy MRAPs.
pandaman 9y ago
"Ironically" hollow point bullets are banned for military too, yet I rather have police use those than AP rounds, which would fly through the perp, his car, his house, his block and end up in some bystander next street over. Would you rather police use napalm (not banned for military) than teargas? And, as the sibling said, police is not purchasing DoD equipment[1], if there is any corruption it could not be in form of kickbacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  DoD isn't the only source of equipment. All that riot gear doesn't come cheap.
  - pandaman 9y ago
    If you are not taking about military gear then why bring up militarization in the same context? Of course there are kickbacks in any government's procurement, even if they are just buying staplers or catering. People spending other people's money do want to be rewarded for the effort.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago