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What I keep failing to see is how does IOT improves anyone's life. It can simplify peoples lives but does it improve? Mozilla could have an important role, whic

What I keep failing to see is how does IOT improves anyone's life. It can simplify peoples lives but does it improve? Mozilla could have an important role, which I think is more important than standards. Right now I only see this fad as let's sell some gadgets that will get us free data about millions of people so they can get inside the house at the sound of their favorite tune.

codezero 9y ago
I don't have an answer for you, but many things didn't improve peoples' lives when they were created. Powered flight didn't become something meaningful when it was first achieved. The Internet wasn't built to improve peoples' lives either, but once in the hands of people, can be used to do that. Certainly some IoT device will improve peoples' lives, and some IoT device (or many) may make them worse. If you figure out how to make IoT improve peoples' lives, you may be able to make some money though :)
shinratdr 9y ago
I think "improve" is a very subjective and lofty standard to hold these things to. I think "simplify" is correct, and most people would see simplification as an improvement. There is definitely something magical about leaving your house and having your lights shut off and your door lock automatically, then coming home after a long day and having your door unlock and lights come back on. It's not such a drastic improvement or change, but it feels like attention to detail. IMO, reducing the number of things I have to think about on a daily basis to live my life is an improvement.
- culturestate 9y ago
  > It's not such a drastic improvement or change, but it feels like attention to detail I call this “life UX,” and you’re exactly right about the way these small, subtle changes add up to surprisingly significant improvements.
  - Angostura 9y ago
    Alternatively, when I contemplate a world where I need to apply firmware upgrades to my light switches, worry about having to set firewall rules for my front door lock, and ponder what will happen if my letterbox vendor goes out of business and turns of their server - the sheer unadulterated, mechanical simplicity of taking a piece of shaped metal out of my pocket, flicking a light switch and then closing my front door by inserting said pice of metal into a small hole is just so very, very attractive. The lack of cognitive load is just magical
    - culturestate 9y ago
      What if there were a world where your light switches are smart and don’t need firmware updates? The state of mass-market IoT right now is a bit of a shitshow, I’ll grant you, but that doesn’t mean it will always be the case. People once groused about the complexity of fuel injection, too.
      - catach 9y ago
        Internet-connected devices never needing firmware updates strikes me as only possible in a world where computer security is a solved problem.
        culturestate 9y ago
        I was thinking about a HomeKit-style solution where only the bridge connects to the internet and everything else is local comms only.
        Retra 9y ago
        Well, that doesn't seem like a good way to collect ad dollars and social media presence!
    - komali2 9y ago
      I'd say that's a very accurate description of an inevitable future, assuming we don't extinct ourselves or wipe our our technology progress by nearly extincting ourselves. One way or the other, for example, automated cars are coming. We can say "but trolleycar problem!" Sure, we need to worry about that! But, no matter how hard we gripe about all the problems and scary things about the new tech, it is coming. It will happen, because there is profit to be had there and it is more efficient than having humans drive and a million other reasons that more than overcome the obstacles. So, an IoT lightswitch may not be as inevitable as self-driving cars, but IoT valve meters sure as heck are, or IoT lightswitches for an oil rig, or IoT smoke detectors... in fact, some of these might become legally required, once they get robust enough! (similar arguments have been made that it may become illegal to drive a non-autonomous car without lots of training/licensing) So, people like you and me, that prefer zippos and straight razors and automatic watches over quartz watches and fountain pens and manual-transmission cars, we'll still be able to have our mechanical switches, we just won't live in a world where everyone wants those things.
- peterwwillis 9y ago
  Yes, you don't have to think about your energy bill or your home security as much. So you stop looking at your bills and don't lock your house. Only to find out later that both services stopped working, so you got charged money you didn't know you were being charged, and your house was open to being looted. People have an annoyance. They think, "I know, I'll add more technology to my life." Now they have two annoyances.
  - shinratdr 9y ago
    > Only to find out later that both services stopped working, so you got charged money you didn't know you were being charged, and your house was open to being looted. Wait, in this scenario am I blind & deaf or something? Because I can see my lights turn off when I leave and turn on when I arrive. I can hear and see the lock close when I leave and hear and see it open when I return. I'm definitely not saying IoT is perfect, but this argument is idiotic. I can also leave my lights on and forget to lock my house with a manual setup, both things I have done before as I'm sure we all have. Honestly, for a community of users that is entirely focused on tech startups, this is a ludicrous amount of FUD.
    - bloak 9y ago
      Yes, and I've left my keys in the outside of the front door all night, with the keys for both cars attached, probably. Fortunately it's a good neighbourhood... I'd like houses to have something like central locking, like cars have had for ages. I just don't want it to depend on the Internet, except if I deliberately choose to connect it somehow. I'd also like to be able to read my gas meter without having to change my clothes afterwards having fought my way through dense vegetation and spiders' webs and knelt down in the mud. But I don't want a "smart" meter connected to the Internet. I just want a local radio link to my own hardware. Any chance I could have these things without having to build them myself?
      - deadbunny 9y ago
        Yes, this has been around for years. It's just basic "smart home" stuff. Zwave/Zigbee devices are plentiful. If you don't want to do it yourself then you pay a company to come in and make your home "smart", they'll sell you everything from the controller to the remote to control everything. 80% of the comments in this entire thread are about the woes of connecting everything to the internet which is a fair concern but it's not like non internet connected equivalents haven't been available for decades.
- Sir_Substance 9y ago
  >There is definitely something magical about leaving your house and having your lights shut off and your door lock automatically, then coming home after a long day and having your door unlock and lights come back on. I can see how it would feel that way if one didn't know too much. Google home devices were caught with their microphones stuck open constantly uploading within weeks of release. What makes you think you won't get a doorlock that gets stuck in an open/close loop and just oscillates, allowing a burglar to just stick their shoulder against the door and wait for the bolt to retract? Are you going to remember to check after every firmware update? Are you even going to know if a firmware update is issued? Will it still be magical if you get declared a legacy customer[1] and your door is programmed to unlock and stay unlocked? Will you even follow IoT news close enough to be confident that this hasn't happened to you? Myself, I'd prefer a door lock that locks only when locked, and unlocks only when the correct key is inserted into it. I've /certainly/ seen one too many crazy software errors to believe in a stove that has the ability to turn itself on and off. [1] https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2453441/revolv-users-revolt-as-googles-nest-bricks-smart-home-hub https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2453441/revolv-use...
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Denial of service attack potential is nice as well: pay $x or we won't unlock your door. As long $x is somewhat lower than what it would cost to replace the lock or fix the damage to the door you might have a buyer.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - kps 9y ago
      Back in the kitchen he fished in his various pockets for a dime, and, with it, started up the coffeepot. Sniffing the-to him-very unusual smell, he again consulted his watch, saw that fifteen minutes had passed; he therefore vigorously strode to the apt door, turned the knob and pulled on the release bolt. The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I'll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don't have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.” In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. “You discover I'm right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt's money-gulping door. “I'll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. — from Ubik, Philip K Dick, 1969 (Dick failed to foresee the convenient ability to have everything automatically debited from your Alexoori account. That, and the annual applobe variation so you can't unscrew your door with a knife.)
zeveb 9y ago
> It can simplify peoples lives but does it improve? Here are some things that have been improved for me: - being able to set my thermostat to vacation mode while at the æroport (via an Internet-connected thermostat) - easily playing TV & music (via Chromecasts) Neither of those is nothing, and I'm really glad for the ability.
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
My IoT devices allow me to ensure my pets will still be alive when I get home.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  How so?
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    I live in Chicago. ...Which should be enough of an answer if you have ever lived in Chicago, but suffice to say, temperature here ranges between -10 and 110, and has the incredible ability to swing 50 or 60 degrees in one day. And my favorite situation can happen where my house is too warm but it's too cold outside to safely operate the air conditioner... Anyways, fire and forget doesn't really work for my thermostat, I need one I can monitor and control, especially if the weather changes unpredictably here. One of my pets in particular is extremely sensitive to temperature, and I actually have a secondary thermostat monitoring the temperature by my pets, which can swing a good 6-8 degrees from the temperature at my master control. Today I had a power outage at home. I got notifications, the computer controlling my home (and my router and modem) are on UPS, and remained online. I was able to remote in and verify that after the outage my thermostat was where it was supposed to be and doing what it was supposed to. I also have had a computer light on fire before, so I'm pretty wary of fire concerns. My computer monitors my home's smoke and carbon monoxide alarms and notifies me as well. While there's no chance my pets might still be alive by the time an outside party notices something wrong in my home, there's a reasonable chance I could call the fire department and they could intervene before all of my pets perished.
    - jacquesm 9y ago
      Thank you for the explanation. A close relation is a firefighter, the one thing that sets him apart from everybody else that I know is that he religiously powers down (as in: unplugged) all consumer electronics before leaving the house. Now, obviously, that is a job related thing, he's seen more than anybody else that isn't in the firefighting business what causes home fires. But if I had had a computer light on fire in my house I probably would switch it off when I'm leaving, and you are making me wonder if that wouldn't be worth it for my home system (which is normally on for years on end). I do spend a lot of time keeping the power supply and the airways dust free, that's one reason computers overheat.
kodablah 9y ago
> What I keep failing to see is how does IOT improves anyone's life I fail to see this as I get older as well. And my parents failed to see it with smart phones as they got older. And their parents with early-day PCs and so on.
ch4s3 9y ago
I've gotten a lot of utility out of adding voice controls and some simple automation to my apartment. Things like turning out the lights from bed with a voice command have been quite nice. I also play music and check the weather before leaving home. None of it is revolutionary, but it's all quite nice.
k__ 9y ago
Probably like with tablets. I got smartphones, but tablets eluded me. Now all women I know use them every day and I even made an app for the iPad.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jacquesm 9y ago
It improves the lives of the people that peddle the solutions. I personally would not install any IoT devices that require access to anything outside of my home network and even then only if I see no other solution. So far no devices have crossed that threshold.
keithnz 9y ago
Thing about IOT is it does two main things, informs, and/or controls. For different people the advantages are going to be different, but for some people there's a lot of anxiety involved in whether they did or didn't do something at home before they left. You could argue IOT can reduce their anxiety and therefore it gives them a higher quality of life. But possibly they just find other things to be anxious about :) We do IOT for farmers, it allows them to manage their crops far more effectively, saves them money.

codezero 9y ago

I don't have an answer for you, but many things didn't improve peoples' lives when they were created. Powered flight didn't become something meaningful when it was first achieved. The Internet wasn't built to improve peoples' lives either, but once in the hands of people, can be used to do that. Certainly some IoT device will improve peoples' lives, and some IoT device (or many) may make them worse. If you figure out how to make IoT improve peoples' lives, you may be able to make some money though :)

shinratdr 9y ago

I think "improve" is a very subjective and lofty standard to hold these things to. I think "simplify" is correct, and most people would see simplification as an improvement. There is definitely something magical about leaving your house and having your lights shut off and your door lock automatically, then coming home after a long day and having your door unlock and lights come back on. It's not such a drastic improvement or change, but it feels like attention to detail. IMO, reducing the number of things I have to think about on a daily basis to live my life is an improvement.

culturestate 9y ago
> It's not such a drastic improvement or change, but it feels like attention to detail I call this “life UX,” and you’re exactly right about the way these small, subtle changes add up to surprisingly significant improvements.
- Angostura 9y ago
  Alternatively, when I contemplate a world where I need to apply firmware upgrades to my light switches, worry about having to set firewall rules for my front door lock, and ponder what will happen if my letterbox vendor goes out of business and turns of their server - the sheer unadulterated, mechanical simplicity of taking a piece of shaped metal out of my pocket, flicking a light switch and then closing my front door by inserting said pice of metal into a small hole is just so very, very attractive. The lack of cognitive load is just magical
  - culturestate 9y ago
    What if there were a world where your light switches are smart and don’t need firmware updates? The state of mass-market IoT right now is a bit of a shitshow, I’ll grant you, but that doesn’t mean it will always be the case. People once groused about the complexity of fuel injection, too.
    - catach 9y ago
      Internet-connected devices never needing firmware updates strikes me as only possible in a world where computer security is a solved problem.
      - culturestate 9y ago
        I was thinking about a HomeKit-style solution where only the bridge connects to the internet and everything else is local comms only.
        Retra 9y ago
        Well, that doesn't seem like a good way to collect ad dollars and social media presence!
  - komali2 9y ago
    I'd say that's a very accurate description of an inevitable future, assuming we don't extinct ourselves or wipe our our technology progress by nearly extincting ourselves. One way or the other, for example, automated cars are coming. We can say "but trolleycar problem!" Sure, we need to worry about that! But, no matter how hard we gripe about all the problems and scary things about the new tech, it is coming. It will happen, because there is profit to be had there and it is more efficient than having humans drive and a million other reasons that more than overcome the obstacles. So, an IoT lightswitch may not be as inevitable as self-driving cars, but IoT valve meters sure as heck are, or IoT lightswitches for an oil rig, or IoT smoke detectors... in fact, some of these might become legally required, once they get robust enough! (similar arguments have been made that it may become illegal to drive a non-autonomous car without lots of training/licensing) So, people like you and me, that prefer zippos and straight razors and automatic watches over quartz watches and fountain pens and manual-transmission cars, we'll still be able to have our mechanical switches, we just won't live in a world where everyone wants those things.
peterwwillis 9y ago
Yes, you don't have to think about your energy bill or your home security as much. So you stop looking at your bills and don't lock your house. Only to find out later that both services stopped working, so you got charged money you didn't know you were being charged, and your house was open to being looted. People have an annoyance. They think, "I know, I'll add more technology to my life." Now they have two annoyances.
- shinratdr 9y ago
  > Only to find out later that both services stopped working, so you got charged money you didn't know you were being charged, and your house was open to being looted. Wait, in this scenario am I blind & deaf or something? Because I can see my lights turn off when I leave and turn on when I arrive. I can hear and see the lock close when I leave and hear and see it open when I return. I'm definitely not saying IoT is perfect, but this argument is idiotic. I can also leave my lights on and forget to lock my house with a manual setup, both things I have done before as I'm sure we all have. Honestly, for a community of users that is entirely focused on tech startups, this is a ludicrous amount of FUD.
  - bloak 9y ago
    Yes, and I've left my keys in the outside of the front door all night, with the keys for both cars attached, probably. Fortunately it's a good neighbourhood... I'd like houses to have something like central locking, like cars have had for ages. I just don't want it to depend on the Internet, except if I deliberately choose to connect it somehow. I'd also like to be able to read my gas meter without having to change my clothes afterwards having fought my way through dense vegetation and spiders' webs and knelt down in the mud. But I don't want a "smart" meter connected to the Internet. I just want a local radio link to my own hardware. Any chance I could have these things without having to build them myself?
    - deadbunny 9y ago
      Yes, this has been around for years. It's just basic "smart home" stuff. Zwave/Zigbee devices are plentiful. If you don't want to do it yourself then you pay a company to come in and make your home "smart", they'll sell you everything from the controller to the remote to control everything. 80% of the comments in this entire thread are about the woes of connecting everything to the internet which is a fair concern but it's not like non internet connected equivalents haven't been available for decades.
Sir_Substance 9y ago
>There is definitely something magical about leaving your house and having your lights shut off and your door lock automatically, then coming home after a long day and having your door unlock and lights come back on. I can see how it would feel that way if one didn't know too much. Google home devices were caught with their microphones stuck open constantly uploading within weeks of release. What makes you think you won't get a doorlock that gets stuck in an open/close loop and just oscillates, allowing a burglar to just stick their shoulder against the door and wait for the bolt to retract? Are you going to remember to check after every firmware update? Are you even going to know if a firmware update is issued? Will it still be magical if you get declared a legacy customer[1] and your door is programmed to unlock and stay unlocked? Will you even follow IoT news close enough to be confident that this hasn't happened to you? Myself, I'd prefer a door lock that locks only when locked, and unlocks only when the correct key is inserted into it. I've /certainly/ seen one too many crazy software errors to believe in a stove that has the ability to turn itself on and off. [1] https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2453441/revolv-users-revolt-as-googles-nest-bricks-smart-home-hub https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2453441/revolv-use...
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Denial of service attack potential is nice as well: pay $x or we won't unlock your door. As long $x is somewhat lower than what it would cost to replace the lock or fix the damage to the door you might have a buyer.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - kps 9y ago
    Back in the kitchen he fished in his various pockets for a dime, and, with it, started up the coffeepot. Sniffing the-to him-very unusual smell, he again consulted his watch, saw that fifteen minutes had passed; he therefore vigorously strode to the apt door, turned the knob and pulled on the release bolt. The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I'll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don't have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.” In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. “You discover I'm right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt's money-gulping door. “I'll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. — from Ubik, Philip K Dick, 1969 (Dick failed to foresee the convenient ability to have everything automatically debited from your Alexoori account. That, and the annual applobe variation so you can't unscrew your door with a knife.)

zeveb 9y ago

> It can simplify peoples lives but does it improve? Here are some things that have been improved for me: - being able to set my thermostat to vacation mode while at the æroport (via an Internet-connected thermostat) - easily playing TV & music (via Chromecasts) Neither of those is nothing, and I'm really glad for the ability.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

My IoT devices allow me to ensure my pets will still be alive when I get home.

jacquesm 9y ago
How so?
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  I live in Chicago. ...Which should be enough of an answer if you have ever lived in Chicago, but suffice to say, temperature here ranges between -10 and 110, and has the incredible ability to swing 50 or 60 degrees in one day. And my favorite situation can happen where my house is too warm but it's too cold outside to safely operate the air conditioner... Anyways, fire and forget doesn't really work for my thermostat, I need one I can monitor and control, especially if the weather changes unpredictably here. One of my pets in particular is extremely sensitive to temperature, and I actually have a secondary thermostat monitoring the temperature by my pets, which can swing a good 6-8 degrees from the temperature at my master control. Today I had a power outage at home. I got notifications, the computer controlling my home (and my router and modem) are on UPS, and remained online. I was able to remote in and verify that after the outage my thermostat was where it was supposed to be and doing what it was supposed to. I also have had a computer light on fire before, so I'm pretty wary of fire concerns. My computer monitors my home's smoke and carbon monoxide alarms and notifies me as well. While there's no chance my pets might still be alive by the time an outside party notices something wrong in my home, there's a reasonable chance I could call the fire department and they could intervene before all of my pets perished.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Thank you for the explanation. A close relation is a firefighter, the one thing that sets him apart from everybody else that I know is that he religiously powers down (as in: unplugged) all consumer electronics before leaving the house. Now, obviously, that is a job related thing, he's seen more than anybody else that isn't in the firefighting business what causes home fires. But if I had had a computer light on fire in my house I probably would switch it off when I'm leaving, and you are making me wonder if that wouldn't be worth it for my home system (which is normally on for years on end). I do spend a lot of time keeping the power supply and the airways dust free, that's one reason computers overheat.

kodablah 9y ago

> What I keep failing to see is how does IOT improves anyone's life I fail to see this as I get older as well. And my parents failed to see it with smart phones as they got older. And their parents with early-day PCs and so on.

ch4s3 9y ago

I've gotten a lot of utility out of adding voice controls and some simple automation to my apartment. Things like turning out the lights from bed with a voice command have been quite nice. I also play music and check the weather before leaving home. None of it is revolutionary, but it's all quite nice.

k__ 9y ago

Probably like with tablets. I got smartphones, but tablets eluded me. Now all women I know use them every day and I even made an app for the iPad.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jacquesm 9y ago

It improves the lives of the people that peddle the solutions. I personally would not install any IoT devices that require access to anything outside of my home network and even then only if I see no other solution. So far no devices have crossed that threshold.

keithnz 9y ago

Thing about IOT is it does two main things, informs, and/or controls. For different people the advantages are going to be different, but for some people there's a lot of anxiety involved in whether they did or didn't do something at home before they left. You could argue IOT can reduce their anxiety and therefore it gives them a higher quality of life. But possibly they just find other things to be anxious about :) We do IOT for farmers, it allows them to manage their crops far more effectively, saves them money.