3 ms·

I’m a Canadian too. The 49th is just a line in the sand. Here’s a reminder: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dziekański_Taser_incident https://en.m.wikip

I’m a Canadian too. The 49th is just a line in the sand. Here’s a reminder: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dziekański_Taser_incident https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dziekański_Taser_inci...

0xddd 9y ago
Is it really as widespread in Canada? The list linked to from that wiki article seems comparatively bare [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_police_excessive_use_of_force_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_police_ex...
- ronilan 9y ago
  A group of people standing around watching a person who is clearly confused and in distress but do nothing. Uniformed armed officers arrive to take charge of the situation, use little judgment and follow what they think is procedure, when it is not, and/or clearly should not be. A tragic outcome. A government apology. Do Loop. Is it really widespread in Canada? Yah. Here’s the video: https://youtu.be/1CR_k-dTnDU https://youtu.be/1CR_k-dTnDU
slededit 9y ago
Having lived in both places there is a notable difference in how authority behaves in each country.
adrianratnapala 9y ago
In most "oh things are terrible in America" matters, I believe other countries are about as bad, but have a tamer media. But police misconduct really does seem to be worse in America. For reasons I don't fully understand. One part of it is probably guns: even in states with strong gun control, there are plenty of them in the hands of hoodlums, so voters appreciate the Dirty Harry approach to dealing with them. But to me that doesn't quite explain why cops seems to have such semi-formal impunity (see for example http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/get-jail-free-cards.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/get..., http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/police-union-privileges.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/pol... and http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/police-union-privileges-officer-misconduct-systems-thinking.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/pol...). Of course we can guess various reasons, voters like police, cops stick together etc, prosecutors and police work together etc. But those things are true in other countries too.
- anonoholic 9y ago
  The UK's media is vicious, yet there are few areas where the UK (or other countries subject to UK media scrutiny) are on-par with, or worse than, the US. North Korea maybe?
- Frondo 9y ago
  A lot of it is how the police largely pick on the most vulnerable populations--poor people, minorities, ex-cons, people with drug problems, whatever. They're not dumb, they know that if they tried to shake down drug-addled sons of senators, they'd be fired. So, like all abusers, they pick targets that can't fight back. And those targets are the ones with the least political/economics agency, the fewest connections, the least ability to respond to police brutality, whatever. And the middle and upper classes--the only voices ever represented in media (excluding the current endless spate of articles interviewing poor Trump voters)--of course they not only have no problem with the police, they don't know anyone who's been shaken down. As a general rule, at least. So, you look at the predominant voices in the media, and they have no problem with the corruption of cops, and they don't know anyone who does. Gosh, even my nominally progressive sister goes into any discussion about police brutality with an assumption that whoever got shot deserved it. And she's generally aware of social issues! The biases are baked in so deep, and so uncomfortable to unpack, it's easier to just to turn away from it all.
- thenayr 9y ago
  "hoodlums" aren't the problem with guns though... It's white males with a history of domestic violence that are the problem. And no...the US is in a league of it's own when it comes to police brutality towards minorities.
patmcc 9y ago
Oh, I'm not under any illusions that this kind of thing never happens in Canada, but I think if you look at the response to that incident (compared to cases in the US) there are hopeful signs. The Braidwood Inquiry concluded the use of Tasers in the case wasn't justified. The officers were charged with perjury (not murder, but at least something). The RCMP issued an apology to Dziekański's mother. Compare this to the response to fatal shootings in the US, and it's very clear to me I prefer this line of the sand.
thriftwy 9y ago
> In February 2009, it was reported that Canada had unilaterally suspended its mutual legal assistance treaty with Poland, thus blocking Poland's own investigation of the Dziekański Taser incident. Whoa, those cops surely have a serious level of political backing. This baffles me always to no end - the flame with which the officials would defend cops who went seriously out of borders. Every time in every locale.

0xddd 9y ago

Is it really as widespread in Canada? The list linked to from that wiki article seems comparatively bare [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_police_excessive_use_of_force_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_police_ex...

ronilan 9y ago
A group of people standing around watching a person who is clearly confused and in distress but do nothing. Uniformed armed officers arrive to take charge of the situation, use little judgment and follow what they think is procedure, when it is not, and/or clearly should not be. A tragic outcome. A government apology. Do Loop. Is it really widespread in Canada? Yah. Here’s the video: https://youtu.be/1CR_k-dTnDU https://youtu.be/1CR_k-dTnDU

slededit 9y ago

Having lived in both places there is a notable difference in how authority behaves in each country.

adrianratnapala 9y ago

In most "oh things are terrible in America" matters, I believe other countries are about as bad, but have a tamer media. But police misconduct really does seem to be worse in America. For reasons I don't fully understand. One part of it is probably guns: even in states with strong gun control, there are plenty of them in the hands of hoodlums, so voters appreciate the Dirty Harry approach to dealing with them. But to me that doesn't quite explain why cops seems to have such semi-formal impunity (see for example http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/get-jail-free-cards.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/get..., http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/police-union-privileges.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/pol... and http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/police-union-privileges-officer-misconduct-systems-thinking.html http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/01/pol...). Of course we can guess various reasons, voters like police, cops stick together etc, prosecutors and police work together etc. But those things are true in other countries too.

anonoholic 9y ago
The UK's media is vicious, yet there are few areas where the UK (or other countries subject to UK media scrutiny) are on-par with, or worse than, the US. North Korea maybe?
Frondo 9y ago
A lot of it is how the police largely pick on the most vulnerable populations--poor people, minorities, ex-cons, people with drug problems, whatever. They're not dumb, they know that if they tried to shake down drug-addled sons of senators, they'd be fired. So, like all abusers, they pick targets that can't fight back. And those targets are the ones with the least political/economics agency, the fewest connections, the least ability to respond to police brutality, whatever. And the middle and upper classes--the only voices ever represented in media (excluding the current endless spate of articles interviewing poor Trump voters)--of course they not only have no problem with the police, they don't know anyone who's been shaken down. As a general rule, at least. So, you look at the predominant voices in the media, and they have no problem with the corruption of cops, and they don't know anyone who does. Gosh, even my nominally progressive sister goes into any discussion about police brutality with an assumption that whoever got shot deserved it. And she's generally aware of social issues! The biases are baked in so deep, and so uncomfortable to unpack, it's easier to just to turn away from it all.
thenayr 9y ago
"hoodlums" aren't the problem with guns though... It's white males with a history of domestic violence that are the problem. And no...the US is in a league of it's own when it comes to police brutality towards minorities.

patmcc 9y ago

Oh, I'm not under any illusions that this kind of thing never happens in Canada, but I think if you look at the response to that incident (compared to cases in the US) there are hopeful signs. The Braidwood Inquiry concluded the use of Tasers in the case wasn't justified. The officers were charged with perjury (not murder, but at least something). The RCMP issued an apology to Dziekański's mother. Compare this to the response to fatal shootings in the US, and it's very clear to me I prefer this line of the sand.

thriftwy 9y ago

> In February 2009, it was reported that Canada had unilaterally suspended its mutual legal assistance treaty with Poland, thus blocking Poland's own investigation of the Dziekański Taser incident. Whoa, those cops surely have a serious level of political backing. This baffles me always to no end - the flame with which the officials would defend cops who went seriously out of borders. Every time in every locale.