5 ms·

Please read in between lines... I could easy write any other example. Don't make me compare HTML/CSS's flexibility with Qt's...

yorwba 9y ago
If you really need the full flexibility of HTML/CSS, you can just use QtWebKit and embed a webview in your UI.
- monkmartinez 9y ago
  Or just use Electron/React-native and skip the pain involved with licensing, packaging, and lack of mobile support.
  - toyg 9y ago
    > licensing, packaging, and lack of mobile support To be fair, these are different problems from what the grandparent was discussing. Licensing is a problem a business really shouldn't have: Qt is LGPL and PyQt licenses are cheap even for ramen-eating startups. Lack of mobile support is a Python problem, I agree there. I can assure you everyone in the Python world is sorely aware of it. Unfortunately, nothing will change until someone does what Google did for Java with Android. But it's a problem that electron apps have too, because "html apps" are still pretty bad on mobile (and terrible on desktop). Similarly, packaging a PyQt app is not much more of a problem than packaging any app that is not among the "blessed" mobile languages (Java/Kotlin and Objective-C/Swift).
  - horsawlarway 9y ago
    That's crazy! /s
- alexandernst 9y ago
  So... it order to replace Electron, let's use QtWebkit, which is basically Electron? :)
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    If you don't want to learn QML.
pharrington 9y ago
You cited an example that is literally trivial in QT. The implication is that instead of comparing tools on their actual merits, and then forming qualitative conclusions, you already have an opinion you're trying to convince others of and are attempting to support it by making assertions about a tool you don't understand.
- david-cako 9y ago
  Are you seriously being difficult with someone who is suggesting that with HTML/JS, most of your work will already be done for you, even in the most niche cases? Javascript is "libraries" the language, for better or worse. You're comparing a language which is the de-facto language of front-end design and increasingly popular on the back-end to UI toolkits that have been around forever and still have virtually no mindshare by comparison. HTML and javascript are the time and energy wise choice for any sort of front end design. It's just that we have shit like electron that is beyond suboptimal at tackling the issue of "native" applications (although I'd argue still a sensible choice!). Ideally we have something like react-native for the desktop, or built in html/js runtimes with platform specific bindings.
s73ver_ 9y ago
No, please do. Explain to users why you need that, and why you feel you are important enough to bypass and ignore all of the existing design guidelines and patterns of whatever OS I'm running on. And why you feel you have to use up all of my CPU and memory to do so.
- Klonoar 9y ago
  For the last time, "existing design guidelines and patterns" is a myth. Even Apple only really hits that (and barely) on iOS; MacOS UI consistency is a mess. Furthermore, most people do not care about this, and the value of marketing with a sleek design vastly outweighs any benefit of conforming to system components UI. If literally every Electron app fixed memory issues and correctly placed OK/Cancel dialog buttons, I'd be fine with it for the rest of my life - and I write native code for a living. ;P
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    "For the last time, "existing design guidelines and patterns" is a myth." No, they aren't. "MacOS UI consistency is a mess." Not really. Most small developer programs I use follow these. It makes it really easy to know what to do to accomplish something. "Furthermore, most people do not care about this" [Citation Needed]. I think most people would prefer to not have to learn a new UI from scratch everytime they want to use a different app. "and the value of marketing with a sleek design vastly outweighs any benefit of conforming to system components UI." What is this "value"? How does that help me accomplish my tasks? "If literally every Electron app fixed memory issues and correctly placed OK/Cancel dialog buttons, I'd be fine with it for the rest of my life" You mean, if every Electron app stopped being Electron?
    - Klonoar 9y ago
      sigh I'm not going to bother listing out the litany of odd UI issues present in macOS, because you can Google it and find this within a few seconds. It comes up every. single. macOS. release. Nobody cares about learning a new UI because most of the tools they use are webapps nowadays anyway, which require this. The value isn't yours, if that wasn't apparent. For the vast majority of people who use apps with easier to implement design/UI/UX features, it's easier for them to get things done. These apps wouldn't have caught on without that. And lastly, you've opted to be incredibly pedantic in an attempt to be snarky (I'm guessing, otherwise I've no clue why you'd do this). Electron is more than memory issues and this isn't even a debate.

yorwba 9y ago

If you really need the full flexibility of HTML/CSS, you can just use QtWebKit and embed a webview in your UI.

monkmartinez 9y ago
Or just use Electron/React-native and skip the pain involved with licensing, packaging, and lack of mobile support.
- toyg 9y ago
  > licensing, packaging, and lack of mobile support To be fair, these are different problems from what the grandparent was discussing. Licensing is a problem a business really shouldn't have: Qt is LGPL and PyQt licenses are cheap even for ramen-eating startups. Lack of mobile support is a Python problem, I agree there. I can assure you everyone in the Python world is sorely aware of it. Unfortunately, nothing will change until someone does what Google did for Java with Android. But it's a problem that electron apps have too, because "html apps" are still pretty bad on mobile (and terrible on desktop). Similarly, packaging a PyQt app is not much more of a problem than packaging any app that is not among the "blessed" mobile languages (Java/Kotlin and Objective-C/Swift).
- horsawlarway 9y ago
  That's crazy! /s
alexandernst 9y ago
So... it order to replace Electron, let's use QtWebkit, which is basically Electron? :)
- pjmlp 9y ago
  If you don't want to learn QML.

pharrington 9y ago

You cited an example that is literally trivial in QT. The implication is that instead of comparing tools on their actual merits, and then forming qualitative conclusions, you already have an opinion you're trying to convince others of and are attempting to support it by making assertions about a tool you don't understand.

david-cako 9y ago
Are you seriously being difficult with someone who is suggesting that with HTML/JS, most of your work will already be done for you, even in the most niche cases? Javascript is "libraries" the language, for better or worse. You're comparing a language which is the de-facto language of front-end design and increasingly popular on the back-end to UI toolkits that have been around forever and still have virtually no mindshare by comparison. HTML and javascript are the time and energy wise choice for any sort of front end design. It's just that we have shit like electron that is beyond suboptimal at tackling the issue of "native" applications (although I'd argue still a sensible choice!). Ideally we have something like react-native for the desktop, or built in html/js runtimes with platform specific bindings.

s73ver_ 9y ago

No, please do. Explain to users why you need that, and why you feel you are important enough to bypass and ignore all of the existing design guidelines and patterns of whatever OS I'm running on. And why you feel you have to use up all of my CPU and memory to do so.

Klonoar 9y ago
For the last time, "existing design guidelines and patterns" is a myth. Even Apple only really hits that (and barely) on iOS; MacOS UI consistency is a mess. Furthermore, most people do not care about this, and the value of marketing with a sleek design vastly outweighs any benefit of conforming to system components UI. If literally every Electron app fixed memory issues and correctly placed OK/Cancel dialog buttons, I'd be fine with it for the rest of my life - and I write native code for a living. ;P
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  "For the last time, "existing design guidelines and patterns" is a myth." No, they aren't. "MacOS UI consistency is a mess." Not really. Most small developer programs I use follow these. It makes it really easy to know what to do to accomplish something. "Furthermore, most people do not care about this" [Citation Needed]. I think most people would prefer to not have to learn a new UI from scratch everytime they want to use a different app. "and the value of marketing with a sleek design vastly outweighs any benefit of conforming to system components UI." What is this "value"? How does that help me accomplish my tasks? "If literally every Electron app fixed memory issues and correctly placed OK/Cancel dialog buttons, I'd be fine with it for the rest of my life" You mean, if every Electron app stopped being Electron?
  - Klonoar 9y ago
    sigh I'm not going to bother listing out the litany of odd UI issues present in macOS, because you can Google it and find this within a few seconds. It comes up every. single. macOS. release. Nobody cares about learning a new UI because most of the tools they use are webapps nowadays anyway, which require this. The value isn't yours, if that wasn't apparent. For the vast majority of people who use apps with easier to implement design/UI/UX features, it's easier for them to get things done. These apps wouldn't have caught on without that. And lastly, you've opted to be incredibly pedantic in an attempt to be snarky (I'm guessing, otherwise I've no clue why you'd do this). Electron is more than memory issues and this isn't even a debate.