4 ms·

The decline is similar but not nearly the exact same. PCs can generally do tasks they once did years later without compromise, iPads get slower and hardware is

by GSimon 9y ago

The decline is similar but not nearly the exact same. PCs can generally do tasks they once did years later without compromise, iPads get slower and hardware is forced to update to a newer OS just to run existing applications, making tasks like simple note taking slower and more of a process than before. With iPad you can't keep your past experience because your product's ecosystem isn't your own vacuum you can't keep it away from forced updates.

oflannabhra 9y ago
>you can't keep it away from forced updates I fail to see how that is the case? Apple neither forces OS updates, nor forces app updates. An iPad will perform exactly the same, given the same software, after 5 years or 10 years, and the user is in control of that software. If you are speaking of services, well, that's not unique to iPads, or Apple, but is a consequence of the Internet.
- GSimon 9y ago
  > Apple neither forces OS updates, nor forces app updates In practice they do. I recently deleted a timelapse app from my new phone (se) because the app wouldn't work with the new update. That may not be the best airtight example as the new OS update I did 'choose' to upgrade to which did somehow break the app, and the creator didn't release an updated version for the new OS, but in a real world scenario are you going to discontinue OS updates on a device you purchased months earlier for a few apps? Meanwhile there's decade old computers running windows xp that have no problems starting photoshop 7.0. There's also this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH1BKPSGcxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH1BKPSGcxQ showing Windows upgrades from earliest versions to newest and software like excel being compatible from earliest versions onward.
  - krrrh 9y ago
    Except Microsoft officially stopped supporting Windows XP in 2014[1], and they had already extended support much longer than they had wanted to because XP was so long-lived and customers pushed back against having to upgrade to Vista. Vista support completely ended last year, and mainstream support for 7 ended in 2015, and 8.1 last month[2]. If you upgraded that decade-old computer to a secure OS then it will almost certainly run terribly. It's fine to run Photoshop 7 on an old PC that's not connected to the internet, but how realistic or useful is that? Under the old desktop upgrade model it's easier to run an unmaintained OS, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Edit: Obviously running a lightweight linux distro is an option for the more technically minded, and it would be great to see projects like https://www.postmarketos.org https://www.postmarketos.org become more widespread for extending the life of tablet and phone hardware. [1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/14223/windows-xp-end-of-support https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/14223/windows-xp-en... [2] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search?alpha=Windows%208 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search?alpha=W...
    - GSimon 9y ago
      There's lots of software that is still being used on machines running Windows XP, some aren't connected to the internet and others are -gasp- risking the lack of windows support (which was generously offered for nearly two decades.) exposing their photoshop to vulnerabilities. You can be pedantic and alarmist about my specific example and ignore the general point of software compatibility if you want I guess. IRL there are 3yr old dated, useless iPads everywhere and that's not the same with even most 5yr+ year old PCs (which would have the specs to upgrade to a new OS and not break your existing software, if you choose to do so)
    - khedoros1 9y ago
      > If you upgraded that decade-old computer to a secure OS then it will almost certainly run terribly. If I chose to put Windows 10 on my 9 year old desktop, it'd run better than Windows 10 on the laptop I bought a year ago as a netbook-style machine. Anything that can run Windows 7 well can run Windows 10 well, and machines that would be well-suited to Windows 7 weren't uncommon a decade ago. But that's all beside the point. The point is that having a single source for software to run on a piece of hardware, and not having control over access to your software, puts a hard upper limit on how long a device will be useful. It's more practical to do something useful on the 18 year old Windows 98 machine I've got at home than my iPod Touch that's half that age. My Android tablet is just a couple of years younger; it's still a useful device because I can keep around backups of apks, download software from project pages, or add one of several app stores that still provide working software.
- ksk 9y ago
  Apple uses dark patterns to trick you into updating. Not to mention that if you accidentally do update, they purposely make it impossible to go back to the factory state. Updating would be no issue if they were beneficial, and most of them usually are. However, once you're 1-2 years in, newer firmware slows down the device, and can also cause apps you paid good money for, to stop working, or be rendered incompatible. In other cases, the only way fix a messed up ios device is to do a full system reset and guess what, you're forced by apple to use the latest firmware. Its a complete shitshow as far as I am concerned.
- crazygringo 9y ago
  If you stick to an old iOS, you lose the ability to install usable applications at all. Apple will let you download the most recent version of an app supported by your OS... but only if you'd installed it previously. If you try to install an app for the first time, it won't give that option, and will instead tell you to upgrade your iOS instead. And then there's the fact that many of the old apps simply won't work, because they rely on out-of-date API's no longer supported by servers. Due to the inability to choose versions of apps to install, I'd say that in iOS the user is not in control of their software.
  - thinkythought 9y ago
    This isn't entirely true, and only applies to really old versions of iOS like 6, on truly old devices(ipad 1, iphone 4, etc). I just installed some new applications on my ipad 3 running iOS 9 this weekend with no issues. It grabbed the newest compatible version, and i was able to start plugging away almost immediately. The only thing that hamstrung me was having to sign out and in to the itunes store once, but i was able to install several games and hulu(which worked!) I do wish you got a popup with a few options of which point release to install, but i think "newest compatible point release" is a good system for 99% of users
    - Karrot_Kream 9y ago
      > on truly old devices(ipad 1, iphone 4, etc) When I was growing up, my parents would give me their 5 year old hand-me-down computers, which were already 4-5 years old or so. the iPhone 4 is 8 years old, so that would already be DOA for my teenage self.
      - thinkythought 9y ago
        This still holds up too. My mom is using my ipad air, which is now about 5 years old. Current software, runs smoothly, no complaints
        Karrot_Kream 9y ago
- ianferrel 9y ago
  > Apple neither forces OS updates, nor forces app updates. A daily (?) annoying prompt to update the OS that can't be permanently banished isn't technically a "forced" update, but it's a clear degradation of usability.
- neilpomerleau 9y ago
  Apple doesn't force OS updates, but they promote them very aggressively. And if you accidentally update, Apple makes it impossible to downgrade.
  - Alterlife 9y ago
    In India, I got my iPhone serviced for a camera issue. They updated the device to the latest iOS before returning it to me. I was given no choice in the matter. Wouldn’t be surprised if they do it for battery replacements as well.
- badpun 9y ago
  > Apple neither forces OS updates, nor forces app updates Apple does not, but vendors of networked apps often do in practice (as they don't want to maintain backcompat APIs on the server side). So, you may be perfectly happy with iOS7 on your iPad2, but one day your Skype just stops working, and it demands an update to its newest version - which in turn requires a modern iOS, installing which will effectively brick your tablet. This way, little by little, your tablet's functionality is taken away from you.

by GSimon 9y ago

oflannabhra 9y ago

>you can't keep it away from forced updates I fail to see how that is the case? Apple neither forces OS updates, nor forces app updates. An iPad will perform exactly the same, given the same software, after 5 years or 10 years, and the user is in control of that software. If you are speaking of services, well, that's not unique to iPads, or Apple, but is a consequence of the Internet.

GSimon 9y ago
> Apple neither forces OS updates, nor forces app updates In practice they do. I recently deleted a timelapse app from my new phone (se) because the app wouldn't work with the new update. That may not be the best airtight example as the new OS update I did 'choose' to upgrade to which did somehow break the app, and the creator didn't release an updated version for the new OS, but in a real world scenario are you going to discontinue OS updates on a device you purchased months earlier for a few apps? Meanwhile there's decade old computers running windows xp that have no problems starting photoshop 7.0. There's also this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH1BKPSGcxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH1BKPSGcxQ showing Windows upgrades from earliest versions to newest and software like excel being compatible from earliest versions onward.
- krrrh 9y ago
  Except Microsoft officially stopped supporting Windows XP in 2014[1], and they had already extended support much longer than they had wanted to because XP was so long-lived and customers pushed back against having to upgrade to Vista. Vista support completely ended last year, and mainstream support for 7 ended in 2015, and 8.1 last month[2]. If you upgraded that decade-old computer to a secure OS then it will almost certainly run terribly. It's fine to run Photoshop 7 on an old PC that's not connected to the internet, but how realistic or useful is that? Under the old desktop upgrade model it's easier to run an unmaintained OS, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Edit: Obviously running a lightweight linux distro is an option for the more technically minded, and it would be great to see projects like https://www.postmarketos.org https://www.postmarketos.org become more widespread for extending the life of tablet and phone hardware. [1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/14223/windows-xp-end-of-support https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/14223/windows-xp-en... [2] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search?alpha=Windows%208 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search?alpha=W...
  - GSimon 9y ago
    There's lots of software that is still being used on machines running Windows XP, some aren't connected to the internet and others are -gasp- risking the lack of windows support (which was generously offered for nearly two decades.) exposing their photoshop to vulnerabilities. You can be pedantic and alarmist about my specific example and ignore the general point of software compatibility if you want I guess. IRL there are 3yr old dated, useless iPads everywhere and that's not the same with even most 5yr+ year old PCs (which would have the specs to upgrade to a new OS and not break your existing software, if you choose to do so)
  - khedoros1 9y ago
    > If you upgraded that decade-old computer to a secure OS then it will almost certainly run terribly. If I chose to put Windows 10 on my 9 year old desktop, it'd run better than Windows 10 on the laptop I bought a year ago as a netbook-style machine. Anything that can run Windows 7 well can run Windows 10 well, and machines that would be well-suited to Windows 7 weren't uncommon a decade ago. But that's all beside the point. The point is that having a single source for software to run on a piece of hardware, and not having control over access to your software, puts a hard upper limit on how long a device will be useful. It's more practical to do something useful on the 18 year old Windows 98 machine I've got at home than my iPod Touch that's half that age. My Android tablet is just a couple of years younger; it's still a useful device because I can keep around backups of apks, download software from project pages, or add one of several app stores that still provide working software.
ksk 9y ago
Apple uses dark patterns to trick you into updating. Not to mention that if you accidentally do update, they purposely make it impossible to go back to the factory state. Updating would be no issue if they were beneficial, and most of them usually are. However, once you're 1-2 years in, newer firmware slows down the device, and can also cause apps you paid good money for, to stop working, or be rendered incompatible. In other cases, the only way fix a messed up ios device is to do a full system reset and guess what, you're forced by apple to use the latest firmware. Its a complete shitshow as far as I am concerned.
crazygringo 9y ago
If you stick to an old iOS, you lose the ability to install usable applications at all. Apple will let you download the most recent version of an app supported by your OS... but only if you'd installed it previously. If you try to install an app for the first time, it won't give that option, and will instead tell you to upgrade your iOS instead. And then there's the fact that many of the old apps simply won't work, because they rely on out-of-date API's no longer supported by servers. Due to the inability to choose versions of apps to install, I'd say that in iOS the user is not in control of their software.
- thinkythought 9y ago
  This isn't entirely true, and only applies to really old versions of iOS like 6, on truly old devices(ipad 1, iphone 4, etc). I just installed some new applications on my ipad 3 running iOS 9 this weekend with no issues. It grabbed the newest compatible version, and i was able to start plugging away almost immediately. The only thing that hamstrung me was having to sign out and in to the itunes store once, but i was able to install several games and hulu(which worked!) I do wish you got a popup with a few options of which point release to install, but i think "newest compatible point release" is a good system for 99% of users
  - Karrot_Kream 9y ago
    > on truly old devices(ipad 1, iphone 4, etc) When I was growing up, my parents would give me their 5 year old hand-me-down computers, which were already 4-5 years old or so. the iPhone 4 is 8 years old, so that would already be DOA for my teenage self.
    - thinkythought 9y ago
      This still holds up too. My mom is using my ipad air, which is now about 5 years old. Current software, runs smoothly, no complaints
      - Karrot_Kream 9y ago
ianferrel 9y ago
> Apple neither forces OS updates, nor forces app updates. A daily (?) annoying prompt to update the OS that can't be permanently banished isn't technically a "forced" update, but it's a clear degradation of usability.
neilpomerleau 9y ago
Apple doesn't force OS updates, but they promote them very aggressively. And if you accidentally update, Apple makes it impossible to downgrade.
- Alterlife 9y ago
  In India, I got my iPhone serviced for a camera issue. They updated the device to the latest iOS before returning it to me. I was given no choice in the matter. Wouldn’t be surprised if they do it for battery replacements as well.
badpun 9y ago
> Apple neither forces OS updates, nor forces app updates Apple does not, but vendors of networked apps often do in practice (as they don't want to maintain backcompat APIs on the server side). So, you may be perfectly happy with iOS7 on your iPad2, but one day your Skype just stops working, and it demands an update to its newest version - which in turn requires a modern iOS, installing which will effectively brick your tablet. This way, little by little, your tablet's functionality is taken away from you.