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That was a thoughtful, interesting article. From the link: "Like most arthropods, they date from the Jurassic period, biologically so much older than mammalia t

That was a thoughtful, interesting article. From the link: "Like most arthropods, they date from the Jurassic period, biologically so much older than mammalia that they might as well be from another planet." (then later...) “The nervous system of a lobster is very simple, and is in fact most similar to the nervous system of the grasshopper. It is decentralized with no brain. There is no cerebral cortex, which in humans is the area of the brain that gives the experience of pain.” Which makes it all the more remarkable that we share some basic elements. As Jordan Peterson recently explained in his book (12 rules) and the now-famous BBC Channel 4 interview, lobsters have been around for an exceedingly long time -- before there were trees! And we share a number of hormonal pathways with this lowly, delicious creature. https://www.google.com/search?q=lobster+dopamine https://www.google.com/search?q=lobster+dopamine The same hormonal triggers that lead an Alpha-lobster to walk with pride and swagger and respect among his carapace-suited peers are involved in our own human sense of accomplishment leading to machismo. How incredible that durable, robust mechanisms replicate in nature and result in enormously complex systems (such as social networks),built on this foundation!

keithflower 9y ago
Your selective quotation misses the main point of Wallace's piece. He is wrestling with the ethics of causing gratuitous suffering. The 'grasshopper' quote is Wallace actually quoting the Maine Lobster Promotion Council, possibly not an unbiased source for science. Wallace goes on to say: Though it sounds more sophisticated, a lot of the neurology in this latter claim [grasshopper quotation] is still either false or fuzzy. The human cerebral cortex is the brain-part that deals with higher faculties like reason, metaphysical self-awareness, language, etc. Pain reception is known to be part of a much older and more primitive system of nociceptors and prostaglandins that are managed by the brain stem and thalamus. Wallace goes on to write: The basic scenario is that we come in from the store and make our little preparations like getting the kettle filled and boiling, and then we lift the lobsters out of the bag or whatever retail container they came home in …whereupon some uncomfortable things start to happen. However stuporous the lobster is from the trip home, for instance, it tends to come alarmingly to life when placed in boiling water. If you’re tilting it from a container into the steaming kettle, the lobster will sometimes try to cling to the container’s sides or even to hook its claws over the kettle’s rim like a person trying to keep from going over the edge of a roof. And worse is when the lobster’s fully immersed. Even if you cover the kettle and turn away, you can usually hear the cover rattling and clanking as the lobster tries to push it off. Or the creature’s claws scraping the sides of the kettle as it thrashes around. The lobster, in other words, behaves very much as you or I would behave if we were plunged into boiling water (with the obvious exception of screaming). A blunter way to say this is that the lobster acts as if it’s in terrible pain, causing some cooks to leave the kitchen altogether and to take one of those little lightweight plastic oven timers with them into another room and wait until the whole process is over.
- biggc 9y ago
  This expanded quote got me to go look up videos of live lobsters being boiled. None of them showed the lobster reacting to being immersed in the water the way Wallace describes

keithflower 9y ago

Your selective quotation misses the main point of Wallace's piece. He is wrestling with the ethics of causing gratuitous suffering. The 'grasshopper' quote is Wallace actually quoting the Maine Lobster Promotion Council, possibly not an unbiased source for science. Wallace goes on to say: Though it sounds more sophisticated, a lot of the neurology in this latter claim [grasshopper quotation] is still either false or fuzzy. The human cerebral cortex is the brain-part that deals with higher faculties like reason, metaphysical self-awareness, language, etc. Pain reception is known to be part of a much older and more primitive system of nociceptors and prostaglandins that are managed by the brain stem and thalamus. Wallace goes on to write: The basic scenario is that we come in from the store and make our little preparations like getting the kettle filled and boiling, and then we lift the lobsters out of the bag or whatever retail container they came home in …whereupon some uncomfortable things start to happen. However stuporous the lobster is from the trip home, for instance, it tends to come alarmingly to life when placed in boiling water. If you’re tilting it from a container into the steaming kettle, the lobster will sometimes try to cling to the container’s sides or even to hook its claws over the kettle’s rim like a person trying to keep from going over the edge of a roof. And worse is when the lobster’s fully immersed. Even if you cover the kettle and turn away, you can usually hear the cover rattling and clanking as the lobster tries to push it off. Or the creature’s claws scraping the sides of the kettle as it thrashes around. The lobster, in other words, behaves very much as you or I would behave if we were plunged into boiling water (with the obvious exception of screaming). A blunter way to say this is that the lobster acts as if it’s in terrible pain, causing some cooks to leave the kitchen altogether and to take one of those little lightweight plastic oven timers with them into another room and wait until the whole process is over.

biggc 9y ago
This expanded quote got me to go look up videos of live lobsters being boiled. None of them showed the lobster reacting to being immersed in the water the way Wallace describes