4 ms·

I'm always interested to see that almonds are acceptable to vegans. Perhaps people should look into commercial beekeeping and how most farmed almonds are pollin

I'm always interested to see that almonds are acceptable to vegans. Perhaps people should look into commercial beekeeping and how most farmed almonds are pollinated. I'd say that a colony of bees is much more intelligent than a typical cow or chicken. I'm not vegan btw, so perhaps I'm not entitled to an opinion on this - that said, I do keep bees.

dogma1138 9y ago
From what I’ve seen most vegans are effectively only first degree vegans they also ignore where the fertilizer comes from. https://www.marshalls-seeds.co.uk/mobile/fish-blood-and-bone-bucket-x1-pid2927.html https://www.marshalls-seeds.co.uk/mobile/fish-blood-and-bone... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_meal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_meal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_meal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_meal
- sf_rob 9y ago
  Even if you accept that your food comes from animal byproducts, being vegan will drastically reduce your "animal footprint". Turning blood/bone/manure into wheat is much more efficient than turning blood/bone/manure into wheat into a cow. (I'm not a vegan, I just don't find this "you can't really be a vegan" loophole compelling)
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    I never made the argument that one can’t be vegan the argument was that if you can eat almonds you shouldn’t eat most mass produced produce since it’s not free of animal products. I really couldn’t care what people eat, and those that don’t eat meat just leave more ribeyes for me.
  - Fnoord 9y ago
    > being vegan will drastically reduce your "animal footprint" The biggest difference to animal death one can make is going vegetarian. But even someone who goes reducetarian is already decreasing their personal and the global footprint. The difference between vegetarian and vegan is much smaller however. Most people are carnists/omni. For them, vegan is a long shot. If we lower the barrier and stop with this defeatist all or nothing approach we can slowly but surely reduce animal suffering. Do you tell your kid who's running first time that they're not quite yet a marathon runner? No, you don't do that either. Set lower standards instead. For yourself, and society. The lower barrier of entry will feel welcoming and allows carnists/omnis to try delicious vegetarian and vegan dishes. Because, yes, those do exist.
cies 9y ago
Vegan here. While I'd argue that stopping to consume meat/dairy/eggs has more impact on animal lives and the planet than stopping almonds because bee are used in pollination, I'm still interested in how these bees a exploited/harmed. You seem to know more than me on this topic, could you please elaborate?
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Unless you grow your own vegetables and produce your own fertilizer you are eating plants that grow on bone and blood. This holds true especially if you are buying organic produce which does not use non-organic fertilizers.
  - cies 9y ago
    I was talking about bees harm.
    - chrisseaton 9y ago
      I think bee keepers amputate the wings of queen bees, for example.
      - cies 9y ago
        Please read the thread. Bee harm in producing almond, we're talking about. Yes, it's a bit of a fringe discussion. :) But that's quite common in veganism.
  - rsynnott 9y ago
    The EU at least banned blood and bone meal from use as agricultural fertiliser (due to major restrictions on animal byproducts in the wake of BSE), though I think this _may_ have now been lifted. In any case, most fertiliser is artificial. The biggest use of bone meal in this country still seems to be as fuel.
ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
Your argument could seem ridiculous to someone who isn't familiar with the concept of "swarm intelligence". Below is some super basic info on how the hive mind works, and how it could be applied to help humans build A.I. https://www.wired.com/2011/12/the-true-hive-mind-how-honeybee-colonies-think/ https://www.wired.com/2011/12/the-true-hive-mind-how-honeybe... http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161215-why-bees-could-be-the-secret-to-superhuman-intelligence http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161215-why-bees-could-be-t...

dogma1138 9y ago

From what I’ve seen most vegans are effectively only first degree vegans they also ignore where the fertilizer comes from. https://www.marshalls-seeds.co.uk/mobile/fish-blood-and-bone-bucket-x1-pid2927.html https://www.marshalls-seeds.co.uk/mobile/fish-blood-and-bone... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_meal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_meal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_meal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_meal

sf_rob 9y ago
Even if you accept that your food comes from animal byproducts, being vegan will drastically reduce your "animal footprint". Turning blood/bone/manure into wheat is much more efficient than turning blood/bone/manure into wheat into a cow. (I'm not a vegan, I just don't find this "you can't really be a vegan" loophole compelling)
- dogma1138 9y ago
  I never made the argument that one can’t be vegan the argument was that if you can eat almonds you shouldn’t eat most mass produced produce since it’s not free of animal products. I really couldn’t care what people eat, and those that don’t eat meat just leave more ribeyes for me.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  > being vegan will drastically reduce your "animal footprint" The biggest difference to animal death one can make is going vegetarian. But even someone who goes reducetarian is already decreasing their personal and the global footprint. The difference between vegetarian and vegan is much smaller however. Most people are carnists/omni. For them, vegan is a long shot. If we lower the barrier and stop with this defeatist all or nothing approach we can slowly but surely reduce animal suffering. Do you tell your kid who's running first time that they're not quite yet a marathon runner? No, you don't do that either. Set lower standards instead. For yourself, and society. The lower barrier of entry will feel welcoming and allows carnists/omnis to try delicious vegetarian and vegan dishes. Because, yes, those do exist.

cies 9y ago

Vegan here. While I'd argue that stopping to consume meat/dairy/eggs has more impact on animal lives and the planet than stopping almonds because bee are used in pollination, I'm still interested in how these bees a exploited/harmed. You seem to know more than me on this topic, could you please elaborate?

dogma1138 9y ago
Unless you grow your own vegetables and produce your own fertilizer you are eating plants that grow on bone and blood. This holds true especially if you are buying organic produce which does not use non-organic fertilizers.
- cies 9y ago
  I was talking about bees harm.
  - chrisseaton 9y ago
    I think bee keepers amputate the wings of queen bees, for example.
    - cies 9y ago
      Please read the thread. Bee harm in producing almond, we're talking about. Yes, it's a bit of a fringe discussion. :) But that's quite common in veganism.
- rsynnott 9y ago
  The EU at least banned blood and bone meal from use as agricultural fertiliser (due to major restrictions on animal byproducts in the wake of BSE), though I think this _may_ have now been lifted. In any case, most fertiliser is artificial. The biggest use of bone meal in this country still seems to be as fuel.

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago

Your argument could seem ridiculous to someone who isn't familiar with the concept of "swarm intelligence". Below is some super basic info on how the hive mind works, and how it could be applied to help humans build A.I. https://www.wired.com/2011/12/the-true-hive-mind-how-honeybee-colonies-think/ https://www.wired.com/2011/12/the-true-hive-mind-how-honeybe... http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161215-why-bees-could-be-the-secret-to-superhuman-intelligence http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161215-why-bees-could-be-t...