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"Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing

"Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose." - The Vegan Society Veganism for most is more than just food, it's includes seeking to reduce animal exploitation and suffering in any aspect of your life. People who eat a vegan diet but ignore animal product consumption in leather, wool, cosmetics are not considered vegan by most vegans, it's usually referred to as "plant-based diet".

masklinn 9y ago
> People who eat a vegan diet but ignore animal product consumption in leather, wool, cosmetics are not considered vegan by most vegans, it's usually referred to as "plant-based diet". Variations of vegetarian? Vegetarianism seems to be solely about diet, whereas veganism is abstaining from animal products in general.
- beobab 9y ago
  Honest question: What are a vegan's views on pets and work animals, such as a horse who pulls a cart to the vegetable market.
  - delecti 9y ago
    From what I've seen, pets are not ideal, but also a low priority. Work animals are usually limited to less industrialized situations, so they're not usually a concern for the same people. I've never known anybody who used a work animal, with the exception of riding horses if you count that.
  - Fnoord 9y ago
    Vegans tend to love animals, and that inspires them to follow a vegetarian and eventually vegan diet. (The non-diet part tends to follow afterwards. See it as an on-going process, like learning things in life is.) Most vegans I know are totally OK with pets. Some own dogs, cats, or horses. Some aren't, and some hate cats for the damage they cause (apparently a big problem in Australia). It isn't common, but some vegans tried to make their cat vegetarian or vegan as well (cats are natural carnivores). Reading my post back my post it is rather generalising, and vague ("most", "some", lacking sources, and anecdotal). Sorry for that, but hey at least I both state it and admit it.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Really depends per vegan. If you already own a leather coat, and you become vegan, not one animal suffered more from you owning that coat. A lot of vegans think very black and white, but there are also vegans and groups of vegans who are more nuanced such as the Facebook group "Friendly and Pragmatic Vegans".
- JohnStrange 9y ago
  In my experience from organizing conferences people who self-identify as vegetarians eat milk products and eggs, though sometimes reluctantly. Vegans don't.
  - masklinn 9y ago
    > In my experience from organizing conferences people who self-identify as vegetarians eat milk products and eggs, though sometimes reluctantly. That's why I used the word "variations". Vegetarians can be "baseline" (no meat), "lacto" (no dairy) and "ovo" (no eggs). A lacto-ovo-vegetarian would eat no meat, dairy or eggs, but it would still only be about diet.
- yesenadam 9y ago
  There are people who avoid meat/dairy for their own benefit. Because they have allergies to it, or have heard eating meat is unhealthy etc. There are others who avoid them for the animals' benefit, to avoid animal suffering. Because there is no rationale for treating humans' lives as of infinite value, and animals as mere meat machines, fish as just 'stock' for humans etc—except that we are humans and they're not. That naturally extends to avoiding use of other animal 'products' besides food. Racism and slavery are other phenomena in which an 'out-group' is treated as not worthy of ethical consideration, as not really mattering, just because they're defined as 'not us'. In these situations, there's a similar difference of opinion in just who the life forms whose lives and suffering matter in the situation are. And if you're brought up in a racist or slave-owning tradition, you (at best) resent the hell out of anyone suggesting you that you are unethical, inconsiderate for being that way. How dare they! Who do they think they are, thinking they're better than me! etc. It will one day seem very odd that nowadays if you abuse and kill a dog or cat you can go to jail; abuse and kill a million chickens or cows and you can be a millionaire. To return to the point, I've come across both ethical vegetarians and dietary vegetarians (to perhaps coin phrases); some tried going vegan but it didn't work for them; some think avoiding meat is doing enough, it being quite hard to avoid all dairy when eating out. But there are many variations. A lot of people seem to avoid meat, but not fish, even calling themselves vegetarian. I'm kind of 'lazy vegan', I try to never eat/use/buy animal products, without going nuts about it—always trying to ascertain that what I eat from cafes or friends is totally vegan would be a huge pain, for myself and others.
huhtenberg 9y ago
I understand that. But how does animal suffering correlate with the tire production?

masklinn 9y ago

> People who eat a vegan diet but ignore animal product consumption in leather, wool, cosmetics are not considered vegan by most vegans, it's usually referred to as "plant-based diet". Variations of vegetarian? Vegetarianism seems to be solely about diet, whereas veganism is abstaining from animal products in general.

beobab 9y ago
Honest question: What are a vegan's views on pets and work animals, such as a horse who pulls a cart to the vegetable market.
- delecti 9y ago
  From what I've seen, pets are not ideal, but also a low priority. Work animals are usually limited to less industrialized situations, so they're not usually a concern for the same people. I've never known anybody who used a work animal, with the exception of riding horses if you count that.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Vegans tend to love animals, and that inspires them to follow a vegetarian and eventually vegan diet. (The non-diet part tends to follow afterwards. See it as an on-going process, like learning things in life is.) Most vegans I know are totally OK with pets. Some own dogs, cats, or horses. Some aren't, and some hate cats for the damage they cause (apparently a big problem in Australia). It isn't common, but some vegans tried to make their cat vegetarian or vegan as well (cats are natural carnivores). Reading my post back my post it is rather generalising, and vague ("most", "some", lacking sources, and anecdotal). Sorry for that, but hey at least I both state it and admit it.
Fnoord 9y ago
Really depends per vegan. If you already own a leather coat, and you become vegan, not one animal suffered more from you owning that coat. A lot of vegans think very black and white, but there are also vegans and groups of vegans who are more nuanced such as the Facebook group "Friendly and Pragmatic Vegans".
JohnStrange 9y ago
In my experience from organizing conferences people who self-identify as vegetarians eat milk products and eggs, though sometimes reluctantly. Vegans don't.
- masklinn 9y ago
  > In my experience from organizing conferences people who self-identify as vegetarians eat milk products and eggs, though sometimes reluctantly. That's why I used the word "variations". Vegetarians can be "baseline" (no meat), "lacto" (no dairy) and "ovo" (no eggs). A lacto-ovo-vegetarian would eat no meat, dairy or eggs, but it would still only be about diet.
yesenadam 9y ago
There are people who avoid meat/dairy for their own benefit. Because they have allergies to it, or have heard eating meat is unhealthy etc. There are others who avoid them for the animals' benefit, to avoid animal suffering. Because there is no rationale for treating humans' lives as of infinite value, and animals as mere meat machines, fish as just 'stock' for humans etc—except that we are humans and they're not. That naturally extends to avoiding use of other animal 'products' besides food. Racism and slavery are other phenomena in which an 'out-group' is treated as not worthy of ethical consideration, as not really mattering, just because they're defined as 'not us'. In these situations, there's a similar difference of opinion in just who the life forms whose lives and suffering matter in the situation are. And if you're brought up in a racist or slave-owning tradition, you (at best) resent the hell out of anyone suggesting you that you are unethical, inconsiderate for being that way. How dare they! Who do they think they are, thinking they're better than me! etc. It will one day seem very odd that nowadays if you abuse and kill a dog or cat you can go to jail; abuse and kill a million chickens or cows and you can be a millionaire. To return to the point, I've come across both ethical vegetarians and dietary vegetarians (to perhaps coin phrases); some tried going vegan but it didn't work for them; some think avoiding meat is doing enough, it being quite hard to avoid all dairy when eating out. But there are many variations. A lot of people seem to avoid meat, but not fish, even calling themselves vegetarian. I'm kind of 'lazy vegan', I try to never eat/use/buy animal products, without going nuts about it—always trying to ascertain that what I eat from cafes or friends is totally vegan would be a huge pain, for myself and others.

huhtenberg 9y ago

I understand that. But how does animal suffering correlate with the tire production?